THE NEXT SUPER SMASH BROS!

[ArmsAreLoud]

I hope it's good. Though I personally don't like 3D fighters in general Namco's got a good reputation with Tekken. They know what they're doing and hopefully they'll deliver.

If not, hey, there's always Homestrife. :U

[weirdguy]

yeah, a 1 person vs 3 samus match isn't nearly as hilarious without friendly fire

edit: is that old game even still being made or what

[littlequietguy]

I'm totes fine with Brawl+ and soforth. You can turn it into a competitive game if you want to. You just shouldn't expect/demand that it will be.

Basically what I'm trying to say is yes you can have games like Darkstalkers and soforth that are colorful but they're marketed and designed to be competitive. Brawl is marketed/designed to be a fun little clusterfuck that is significantly higher in the department of random chance than a finely tuned 2D tournament fighter.

Let's both agree that Super Smash Bros is a nice series, and that both ways of playing the game are perfectly fine. The important thing is that neither side looks down on the other as inferior, cause that's mean spirited. We good Wesley? Come in for a hug. I'm hugging you now with text. The arms are enfolded around your soft fur.

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I'm crying into your fur now Wesley. The tears are getting all over the keyboard. It's getting hard to type. The tears are making my fingers sticky and I'm getting your fur on my hands. And now as I typed that previous sentence a few hairs were affixed to my keyboard. Will you look at that. The hair is woven perfectly under the C key and below the space bar. It's beautiful. The unity of words and hair. A metaphor so rich I have to wear shades. Fudgesicles! I screwed that up! I am a loser. I'm crying tears now. Not the same tears as earlier this post though. Different ones. Tears of joy. Fudgesicles the second! Is there anything I do that's not just typing in inaccuracies into my keyboard all the time? Turns out the answer is no. The other type of tears. Listen up and listen good. But you can't. Because this conversation is happening through text and nobody is speaking aloud. So I guess I win again, because you are incapable of listening up. Checkmate.

[weirdguy]

what

can't we just stick with making every feature have a toggle switch

is that too much to ask

[littlequietguy]

what

can't we just stick with making every feature have a toggle switch

is that too much to ask

Smash Bros fandom is a holy war, and only one side can survive.

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jk both sides are awesome. See: me and Wesley's hug from earlier. The fur is entangled inside my own body hair. And I'm never washing it out. To do so would be a declaration of war.

Edit: Not that I even could wash it out. I'd need to de-entangle it. Just like trying to separate the knotted cords of gamecube controllers to play melee.

[Superfrequency]

I think you will find that most people give exactly zero fucks about how the game was "meant" to be played.

My point was more that the more content has to be house ruled out to create a "competitive enviroment" or "level playing field", the amount of ridicule said house rulers attract increases exponentially. Not that anyone is attempting to enjoy something incorrectly.

Square peg in a round hole etc.

And no nobody likes tripping what was the deal with that.

[shinyjiggly]

I hope that this one doesn't try to shove its "epic-looking visuals" down the player's throat like Brawl did for me.
Like, Melee seemed to me like it was straight-up fun-business with plenty of opportunities to be slammed into next week while Brawl showed itself as this slow-mo explosion of party and appeal, which was still a lot of fun, but in my opinion, not exactly the type of aesthetic that I had grown to know and love about Melee. And yes, I enjoy playing on slightly gimmicky stages and having all items turned on, to some of my more competitive friends' dismay.

Also, since when is 30-something or 50 characters in a fighting game a SMALL number? Last time I checked, that's a fairly large quantity for a bunch of hopefully-unique options to kick the other player's butt with.
And I also wouldn't get your hopes up for enormous amounts of 3rd party characters either, though that's probably just personal bias speaking to me. Most likely, the 3rd party-ers will be a very select few, mostly for promotional reasons or something like that.

That being said, Pac-Man either has a very slim chance (not particularly related to anything Nintendo; at least Sonic was the mascot of the rival and Snake was in an exclusive NES game) or a very high chance (very important part of videogame history) of getting in, depending upon the requirements and whether the developers want him to be put in or not.

EDIT: This is just my headcanon, but I think tripping was implemented so that Sakurai could hear the world invoking his name in its rageful reply. Or something like that. Probably just a funny little party gimmick that never was considered very funny due to players not liking it when their control is randomly temporarily revoked so that they can be made fools of when they're busy in the heat of the battle.

[PepperYena]

Uh littlequietguy

What... Was that

Just... what

I'm taking particular notice to it because I'm soft and fluffy too!.... But um yeah what in the world I'm gonna go to Page 2 and see how anything about the new Smash Bros. game could possibly make you say stuff like that

[Xerom]

lol dang, I missed out on the competitive smash talk.

-No items
-Team attack on
-No chain grabbing

3 stocks, no items, team attack on, no exploitation of MK's infinite dimensional cape (and other glitches), there's a limit to how many times ledges can be grabbed (to avoid stalling), and there's a set list of stages that can be picked to avoid picking dumb stages like new pork city. I know I might be missing some, but other than that, you knew your stuff.

[Superfrequency]

Meta Knight is actually completely banned.

[Xerom]

Meta Knight is actually completely banned.

I know that, but I was referring to when only his cape was banned. I didn't expect anyone to actually keep track of these things besides myself.

[Mr.Tie]

I know that, but I was referring to when only his cape was banned. I didn't expect anyone to actually keep track of these things besides myself.

wait... his "useless" cape move is actually powerful?
I-
uh-
What?

I guess that'll teach me using mainly Wario (old outfit of course) DDD, Ness or Lucas and Luigi. (among others even more random sometimes if I feel it... though not DK, for some reason I CANNOT play against him, and can't really use him either)

[youdont12know]

Oh man I always loved brawl. I found a group of players to play in and always kicked their ass using Zelda. Not even Sheik, just Zelda. Speaking of which, Toon Zelda and Tetra or bust.

[Wesley Foxx]

Toon Zelda with a down-B shift INTO Tetra.

My mains were Cap'n in the original, Fox in Melee, and Mario in Brawl.
Runner up favorites were Pikachu/Fox, Falco/Mewtwo/Mario, and Starfox trio/Lucario/WEEGEE

[Gordon]

I've always been Kirby. I think he has the right mix of power and lightness. Though in Melee and Brawl I also do a lot of Young Link/Toon Link. Mainly because they are Link only way better. lol

Though me and my friends would a lot of the times play with rules to meant your friends chose your character for you, so you had to be good with everyone, even Peach or Ice Climbers, if you wanted to win. A lot of times they would give me Ness thinking he was impossible and I would destroy them. lol

[Wesley Foxx]

We played a lot of Pikachu/Jigglypuff, max items, Pokeballs only, Viridian City back in the day. Or max items, with all items turned off. Explosive containers everywhere!

[Trueblader]

I'd like to see ganondolf with a Zelda/Sheik type thing. One with his dark magics/a Captain Falcon clone and one with his sword.

[ArmsAreLoud]

I just want Ganondorf to be completely revamped. He really should be his own character.

[Mustavus]

I wasn't considering "3 stock" or "don't exploit blatant glitches" rules, really. 3 stock also doesn't seem universal at all, last I checked the local place where tournaments are held still uses 4 stock/8 minutes. I didn't realize how common banning Metaknight had gotten, though. That seems sort of extreme, but at the same time completely justified.

And dumb stages are dumb stages. No one likes New Pork City, regardless of how they play.

I didn't really have a main in 64, but I would usually use Marth or DK in Melee, and Zelda/Sheik in Brawl with a light dash of Mario in both.

Edit; Does Ganondorf even actually use a sword in the one game where he has one lodged in his chest? I assume the next game will see Ganon redesigned to whatever Wii U Zelda game we get.

[ArmsAreLoud]

Pikachu in 64, Roy in Melee, Game and Watch in Brawl.

I've never been a competitive player (just not good enough) but I've always had the competitive mindset where I have more fun fighting on fair terms.

[Milskidasith]

Meta Knight has an advantage over literally every other character in the game that isn't Meta Knight, so banning him kinda makes sense. It's not awful per matchup (besides characters who are actually bad to begin with, I remember them being like 6.5/3.5 at best) but the fact he's ahead everywhere means that there's no reason not to play him if he isn't banned.

[ArmsAreLoud]

I have a hard time condoning bans of any kind unless the thing in question is completely game breaking, IE Akuma's fireball infinite or Rolento's knife glitch. The reason to play other characters is because you don't want to play Meta Knight; there was really no reason not to play Magneto/Storm/Sentinel in Marvel 2 but that didn't stop Mike Z from repping Juggernaut/Doom/Tron. He decided he didn't like the meta game so instead of just accepting it he chose to break it by finding new tech with characters he actually wanted to play.

A 6.5/3.5 match up isn't that bad, especially if you're talking about top tier vs. low tier. Most Capcom games are much worse in that regard.

Of course this only applies to non-random things that can be predicted and controlled.

[Captain Combusken]

So obviously the only main things that I want expanded on in the new brawl are Pokemon and Sonic. because I love those tow series.

I Think we should have Knuckles, Tails, Eggman and maybe Shadow as playable characters from sonic.

Much to my chagrin, Lucario is probably going to be replaced. Zoroark is a likely replacement. Although I wish that Jigglypuff could be axed. Jigglypuff is pointless imo.

I also want an expansion of Pokemon trainer. Basically, when you select Pokemon Trainer, you can either be Red, Ethan, Brendan, Lucas or Hilbert. This will alter the possible Pokemon you can have on you "Team" of three. Each Combination would have Triple Finish as the Final Smash.

The "Team" work like this:
Red: Squirtle [Quick/Light], Ivysaur [Medium], Charizard [Slow/Heavy]
Ethan: Cyndaquil [Quick/Light], Croconaw [Medium], Meganium [Slow/Heavy]
Brendan: Treecko [Quick/Light], Combusken [Medium], Swampert [Slow/Heavy]
Lucas: Piplup [Quick/Light], Grotle [Slow/Heavy], Infernape [Medium]
Hilbert: Pignite [Medium], Dewott [Medium], Servine [Medium]

And then, another character: Team Rocket. Works like Pokemon Trainer, but with:
TR: Meowth [Quick/Light], Arbok [Medium], Weezing [Slow/Heavy]

Ok I may as well make a whole new character list.

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Key: Bold means new character. Strikethrough means character is no longer there. Italic means a returning character
Bowser
Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Ike
Jeff (Earthbound)
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Knuckles (Sonic)
Krystal
Link
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Meta Knight
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Olimar
Paula (Earthbound)
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Pokémon Trainer [Red/Ethan/Brendan/Lucas/Hilbert] (Pokémon)
Poo (Earthbound)
R.O.B.
Roy
Samus/Zero Suit
Shadow (Sonic)
Slippy (Starfox)
Snake
Sonic
Tails (Sonic)
Team Rocket (Pokémon)
Toad (Mario)
Toon Link
Waluigi (Mario)
Wario
Wolf
Yoshi
Zelda/Shiek
Zoroark (Pokémon)

That'd be a total of 46 characters, with 50 if you count all the various Pokémon trainers as separate.

[Milskidasith]

I have a hard time condoning bans of any kind unless the thing in question is completely game breaking, IE Akuma's fireball infinite or Rolento's knife glitch. The reason to play other characters is because you don't want to play Meta Knight; there was really no reason not to play Magneto/Storm/Sentinel in Marvel 2 but that didn't stop Mike Z from repping Juggernaut/Doom/Tron. He decided he didn't like the meta game so instead of just accepting it he chose to break it by finding new tech with characters he actually wanted to play.

A 6.5/3.5 match up isn't that bad, especially if you're talking about top tier vs. low tier. Most Capcom games are much worse in that regard.

Of course this only applies to non-random things that can be predicted and controlled.

First off: "I want to play something not high tier" isn't a valid excuse for imbalance. I can want to play Pit all I want, but there's no reason to not play Meta Knight if I actually want to win.

Second: Bans should be done with great caution, but it doesn't have to be something that 10/0s everybody in order to warrant a ban. If it makes the game better, banning them is justified. Using your own example, Old Sagat is (soft) banned in Japanese tournaments not because he's as broken as Akuma, but because his matchups are so good against a significant majority of the cast that he greatly limits character variety.

Meta Knight fits that criteria. Yes, a 6.5/3.5 matchup isn't that bad (though as I said: That's what I remember his best matchup being against the characters that weren't terrible to begin with), but when his matchups are usually 6/4 in every single case, there's literally no reason not to pick Meta Knight. The game becomes far, far more varied if you ban Meta Knight, because there are actually multiple characters worth picking. Comparing it to another game is silly; Capcom is hideously imbalanced and happened to have a competitive game in spite of that fact, running on very, very few characters. However, just banning one or two characters doesn't solve the issues in those games at all; banning Meta Knight does, in fact, solve the issue "Meta Knight has a favorable matchup against everybody but himself, why aren't you playing him?" There's also the fact the communities are different and may make different choices, but MvC2 did have a bit more character variety than just the same team of 3 all the time; Smash had only one justifiable pick.

[Mustavus]

So obviously the only main things that I want expanded on in the new brawl are Pokemon and Sonic. because I love those tow series.

I Think we should have Knuckles, Tails, Eggman and maybe Shadow as playable characters from sonic.

I have pretty much no familiarity with the Sonic series, but would Knuckles/Shadow actually be significantly different in play? If not, it seems like it would be an easy crowd pleaser to simply give Sonic Shadow/Knuckles costumes in the base game. Sonic's moveset in Brawl is already sort of bland, says this observer.

However, I actually really like that Team Rocket idea.

I don't like the idea of character bans in general, but I can agree with the reasoning in the case of Metaknight. He's a good chunk of what made me disinterested in the competitive scene early on. As long as Metaknight's around, half the roster goes from unlikely winners to a waste of effort.

It also seems to be generally well received by the competitive Smash community, which seems like the best way to gauge if it's a good decision.