[Complaints Thread] or The Bitch About Homestuck Thread

[Conspicuous]

Which makes the distinction pretty meaningless, to be honest.

What's the added value of classifying the classes like that?

[Branetheory]

Being a thief or rogue is an entirely gender neutral occupation in the real world, yet in homestuck those classes are primarily female. Besides, sylladexes/trolls/mythological roles don't exist AT ALL in real life, so they shouldn't even be in the story, right? The classes are incredibly abstracted from what they mean literally in most cases, so I see no reason why a woman could not be called a "Prince" in the context of SBURB, except for Andrew's authorial fiat that this will never happen.

Homestuck was created by a person, and that person decided to make the destroyer classes male only. I want to know the reason for this, and as has been brought up, a possible reason is sexism. I'm not saying this is the most likely or the only answer, or that Andrew is a bad person. As he said, gender piccadilloes. I'm just noting this decision seems strange and inexplicable, and some people, reasonably or unreasonably will come to conclusions about Andrew because of these things.

EDIT: I'm not saying passive/active is sexist at all. It's just uninteresting and useless. I'm saying restricting the classes by gender seems a little sexist.

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

I'm pretty sure that Princes and Bards weren't actually destroyers IRL either.

The concept of Sburb classes is based on medieval roles and whatnot.

Their actual role in Sburb is more like just a thing that is tacked onto the original meaning.

Being a thief or rogue is an entirely gender neutral occupation in the real world, yet in homestuck those classes are primarily female. Besides, sylladexes/trolls/mythological roles don't exist AT ALL in real life, so they shouldn't even be in the story, right? The classes are incredibly abstracted from what they mean literally in most cases, so I see no reason why a woman could not be called a "Prince" in the context of SBURB, except for Andrew's authorial fiat that this will never happen.

Homestuck was created by a person, and that person decided to make the destroyer classes male only. I want to know the reason for this, and as has been brought up, a possible reason is sexism. I'm not saying this is the most likely or the only answer, or that Andrew is a bad person. As he said, gender piccadilloes. I'm just noting this decision seems strange and inexplicable, and some people, reasonably or unreasonably will come to conclusions about Andrew because of these things.

EDIT: I'm not saying passive/active is sexist at all. It's just uninteresting and useless. I'm saying restricting the classes by gender seems a little sexist.

Thieves and Rogues are female because of Vriska and also to balance out Male Roles versus Female roles.

Really, they are just arbitrary words that are assigned according to basic "video game traits" such as gender or defensive or offensive prone, etc.

A female being a Prince...doesn't make sense. These medieval roles were retroactively given more video game-like significance. Prince originally meant "Prince," but then Hussie decided, "Okay since Eridan destroyed Hope that's what I'll make all Princes do." There was no sexist intent, conscious or unconscious.

Of course it is not up to me you interpret that, but I'm just saying that motivations were not sexist.

[Conspicuous]

The concept of Sburb classes is based on medieval roles and whatnot.

Their actual role in Sburb is more like just a thing that is tacked onto the original meaning.

I know. That's just me saying that drawing parallels to the real life meanings of the terms only gets you so far. Which is not very.

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

I know. That's just me saying that drawing parallels to the real life meanings of the terms only gets you so far. Which is not very.

My point was that the additional abilities of different classes was a retroactive development. It originally meant Prince; now it means Destroyer. This is all according to the whim of Hussie.

A Prince's role is somewhat similar to a Prince, while a Prince's power is to destroy their aspect. So basically, a Prince is a Prince and a Destroyer.

I think

[Conspicuous]

My point was that the additional abilities of different classes was a retroactive development. It originally meant Prince; now it means Destroyer. This is all according to the whim of Hussie.

A Prince's role is somewhat similar to a Prince, while a Prince's power is to destroy their aspect. So basically, a Prince is a Prince and a Destroyer.

I think

But Eridan and Dirk are more like Dicks.

Dick of Hope and Dick of Heart.
Sounds like a good pick-up line.

(Sleuth that shit)

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

But Eridan and Dirk are more like Dicks.

Dick of Hope and Dick of Heart.
Sounds like a good pick-up line.

(Sleuth that shit)

"Baby, if you are ever worried about my penis adequacy, rest assured:

I have a Dick of Hope."

No that's stupid.

[Greyscale]

I really don't understand why the class gender limitations active/passive stuff are in the story, the first impression is that it seems kind of arbitrary

I heard someone suggest something that's the only way I could comprehend it fitting into it, and it's by saying that it fits into the whole yin-yang theme that's suddenly being played up since the second half of Act 5.2

Since yang is seen as both male and active, while yin is seen as female and passive, and it matches

But other than that I don't really "get" it, are there a lot of customizable rpgs that limit your player options by gender or something? I know stuff like World of Warcraft limit by species but I've never heard of gender doing it

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

I really don't understand why the class gender limitations active/passive stuff are in the story, the first impression is that it seems kind of arbitrary

I heard someone suggest something that's the only way I could comprehend it fitting into it, and it's by saying that it fits into the whole yin-yang theme that's suddenly being played up since the second half of Act 5.2

Since yang is seen as both male and active, while yin is seen as female and passive, and it matches

But other than that I don't really "get" it, are there a lot of customizable rpgs that limit your player options by gender or something? I know stuff like World of Warcraft limit by species but I've never heard of gender doing it

This is a surprising amount of people who dislike the Role Exposition.

I like it because it gives us more insight into Sburb, a player's purpose and role in the story, and their god tier powers. Plus, it's just generally pretty cool.

Also, I don't know about that second part, but there is quite a bit of All Male/Female Video Game Classes, according to TV Tropes.

[Conspicuous]

Yeah, but it never adds much to those games.

[nostalgebraist]

I don't really get it either, but I think it might be a reference to how in a lot of console RPGs, the male characters tend to be attackers and the female characters tend to be healers ("use their aspect to benefit others")?

Like, in a lot of games that's just the result of tradition and doesn't fit the plot especially well. Maybe Hussie is trying to refer to that cliche while making it an actual part of the explicitly established storyline? Kind of like turning the cliche "characters only die in dramatic ways" into an actual mechanic (God Tier resurrection).

But that's a pretty enormous stretch. It's just the only thing I've managed to come up with.

[Conspicuous]

Well, in FF4, most of the characters seem to resurrect even with all their heroic deaths, so maybe God Tier deaths are looser than we think?

Also, that doesn't really work, since we know that the second most active class is female.

[Greyscale]

This is a surprising amount of people who dislike the Role Exposition.

I like it because it gives us more insight into Sburb, a player's purpose and role in the story, and their god tier powers. Plus, it's just generally pretty cool.

I like the role exposition just fine and I'm sure a lot of people do

I'm also sure that an amount of the same people who like the role exposition just find a problem with the gender thing specifically, the main sentiment is that it seems like an arbitrary limitation that doesn't mean anything other than "Girls can't do this" or "Guys can't do that"

Like what if a guy wants to be a healer but Sylph is female-exclusive

Then they'd be the Whatever of Life or Prince of Doom or something. Maybe the point is to have people make different interesting combinations that do the same thing? I don't know, like I said, I don't "get" why it's in there in the first place. I'd like to know but for now it's just, "Uhhh, okay?"

Or maybe the whole point is that the classes in the story aren't the only classes in SBURB and that there are more classes that do exactly the same thing as, like, a Seer except it has a dude's name instead and the god tier gets parachute pants instead of a dress?

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

Well, I can say one thing: A female Prince would have been pretty weird.

[Greyscale]

Well, I can say one thing: A female Prince would have been pretty weird.

pardonnez moi

[Conspicuous]

Well, I can say one thing: A female Prince would have been pretty weird.

Nah.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

[ArmsAreLoud]

I think the worst part of the male only/female only stuff is the fact that we cannot get highly masculine characters "stuck" with a classically female role. Equius-style characters as God Tier Sylphs.

[Conspicuous]

I think the worst part of the male only/female only stuff is the fact that we cannot get highly masculine characters "stuck" with a classically female role. Equius-style characters as God Tier Sylphs.

To fanart!

[elation2.0]

There might class we haven't seen guys. Like, maybe there are male healer and female destroyer classes that haven't been brought up in this session? Just a possibility. Andrew has indeed suggested there are more classes than the Kid's and Troll's

[Altum]

Actually, by calling those the 12 "standard classes" he did the opposite of that.

[Branetheory]

I wouldn't have a problem with role exposition if it was kept more vague. The roles feel a lot less malleable and "mystical" now that they are slotted into definite places. Asking how/if Gamzee's actions could fit into the abstract idea of a bard associated with rage is to me more interesting than trying to think of how each aspect could be destroyed/used to destroy. It opens some avenues for thought and discussion but not particularly interesting ones.

My only solace is that since UU is the only one in-story to have made any of these distinctions, so I can at this point it all down to UU's ~*~fanfiction headcanons~*~ (which I guess this is also).

[Greyscale]

Actually, by calling those the 12 "standard classes" he did the opposite of that.

Maybe he means the twelve standard that we know of that's presented in the story, since it's twitter and he's not going to write an essay on twitter?

Full quote btw

@TheBookOfBeth of the 12 std. classes, the most active is female, and the 2 most passive are both male. gender... peccadilloes, maybe?

[kaoticAntagonist]

standard implies most common to me.

So there could be some crazy class out there that is not standard but not Master too.

[kawaiiNekoromancer]

Actually, by calling those the 12 "standard classes" he did the opposite of that.

Actually, we already know that UU is of a 13th class, which, indeed implies that there are more than just 12 classes. The 12 "standard" classes are more like the most common class types that show up in video games and the like. There's also nothing saying there aren't female versions of male exclusive classes and vice versa, they just aren't as common. For all we know, "muse" might be a female version of the bard or something similar.

[Hypotenuse Man]

I sort of took it to mean that if there's a session with 12 players, those would be the 12 classes that would show up. Any fewer than 12, and we get a selection from those 12 (aside from the master classes, I guess, which I suppose show up to compensate for the 2-player session). If there's a session with more than 12 players, then we start to see non-standard classes.