IDE/Theory Thread 25: The Red Supergiant is the Forge

[The_Codfish]

Eridan had HOOOOPE beams. Hope-powered beams.

[ArmsAreLoud]

You have to remember to look at it through literary eyes. Aranea obviously did not restore Terezi's vision, so the line that explains Aranea's literal powers over light has no narrative use within that moment. So then why would a passage such as this be included? It explicitly sets a precedent for the titles having both metaphorical and literal meanings, a precedent that should be cashed in at a later date.

John literally inherited through breath because things just fell in his lap through The Breeze.

Gamzee's flip out against the Black King was almost certainly related to his element.

Eridan's powers were Hope beams.

You've got me on Jade and Dave but 3/5 examples being shut down is pretty good.

[LMLYP]

Going to just post this here so I can do the HAA HAA I WAS TOTALLY RIGHT dance if I'm right later:

Vriska will fuck shit up by stealing the light from the Green Sun. In addition to the Killed By Break Spider art from forever ago, precedent has been set for God Tiers being able to manipulate their element in the literal sense by Aranea being able to heal Terezi's vision.

yes this is one of the best theories

vriska's going to captchalogue the green sun (see the 8-ball she's holding?) and feed it to WV

EDIT heres a serious theory for the new thread: dd's adding some orbs to the ring in preparation for the heroes' arrival
when he puts it on and gains becquerel's powers, either jack or the queen will praise him with "Good dog. Best droog."

[ArmsAreLoud]

Giving the power to somebody else isn't really Vriska's style.

[Hytheter]

Yeah It's much more likely that he'll just grab it while she isn't looking.

[mysteriousOutsider]

Giving the power to somebody else isn't really Vriska's style.

and it's against the idea of the Thief class

[LMLYP]

ok how about

vriska steals the green sun (defusing the conflict between GCat and Jade)
and/or
WV eats the orb on Lord English's cane

[aPawnAscending]

WV eats the orb on Lord English's cane

And then becomes the most powerful and important character in Homestuck.

[Unclever title]

That doesn't entirely disprove it, however, since John still only uses Breath literally, Gamzee has only been seen using metaphorical Rage, Eridan's powers were aimed at destroying conceptual Hope, Jade's suspected Witch powers only relate to dimensional Space, Dave only has manipulated his position in time, etc, etc, etc. We've only seen Vriska steal fortune. She may not be able to steal actual light.

Well, strictly speaking John deals with more than just breath. He controls wind. If he only used Breath literally he'd be all about supplying oxygen to people's lungs and suffocating his enemies. Instead he just throws tornadoes at them. So already he's using Breath figuratively.

Also what about Gamzee's Rage was metaphorical? He nearly destroyed his entire team because he flipped his shit and got angry to the point of insanity.

Hope is a concept. It's not a physical thing therefore it cannot be physically destroyed so pretty much all sense of destroyed hope is figurative speech. That's just the nature of English (and probably most languages). However he has literally destroyed the matriorb an object that gave Kanaya hope. The loss of said object resulted in a direct loss of hope. So Eridan works both ways. He literally destroys things that result in the figurative destruction of hope.

You're pretty much right about Jade. The witch being a more combat based class I'm not sure how she could use space figuratively.

Time is kinda wonky since it's both a real and figurative thing. But you're pretty much right here too.

Personally, I think the heroes' powers are all about how they understand them. Rose didn't think of her title literally until Doc Scratch hinted at her having x-ray vision as a possibility. Then it turned out she was able to do it.

Could Vriska steal light in a more literal fashion? Probably. Does she know how to yet? Well she hasn't done it before... so maybe not. It's not like light is even a containable thing, it's just electromagnetic radiation.

How do you steal radiation? What does that even really mean? (*Actually further thought on this below)

Plus the Green Sun has A FREAKING LOT OF LIGHT. Roughly two universes worth. Imagine, all stars in the known universe huddled together into a ball and then multiply that by two. I'd be impressed if Vriska could even steal the light from a single normal sized star. Stealing ALL THE LIGHT from the Green Sun would be godhood power on a level we have never seen in Homestuck.

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*The only thing I can really think of for light stealing in any literal fashion, would be redirection. It's not like Vriska can keep it once stolen, but she could potentially take the illumination away from one person and put it on herself. Thereby making another invisible and making herself appear to glow. Sound like it's right up Vriska's alley, actually.

So in terms of stealing the Green Sun's light? Well the Green Sun provides First Guardians with power. First Guardians can constantly see the Green Sun. So what is a First Guardian's power but the figurative light of the Green Sun shining upon them? So here's what I think is the most important question here.

Could Vriska steal a First Guardian's power? We know she never did because beta timeline Vriska had a lot of trouble fighting Jack. So it might not be possible. But I like to think that it is possible, it's just that Vriska never knew she could. However, I still don't think that she could steal ALL THE LIGHT from the Green Sun. I mean that is just a preposterous amount of light.

[The_Codfish]

Well, she wouldn't need to steal all of it. Just enough of it.

[LMLYP]

Well, she wouldn't need to steal all of it. Just enough of it.

as if vriska would be satisfied with anything short of allllllll the light. it's probably part of her plan to escape the afterlife.

aradia said that the green sun will "never be destroyed"; she didn't say anything about it being stolen. though UU's "fixed in the abyss for all dUration" might rule that out? maybe it just goes dark when its light is stolen.

vriska could also be the one to snatch LE's cane.

[Conspicuous]

Of course, if Vriska actually steals the Green Light, she'll definitely end up irredeemably stupid and/or evil. Not sure which.

[Kaleb702]

IDE / Theory about that IDE / theory: If Vriska steals Green Sun light, it will weaken both Bec Noir and Jade because there isn't enough to go around now.

[FeralSolaris]

Dave and Jade do have somewhat more tangible Aspects, so getting a metaphorical/literal combo is a little more difficult to pin down, but...

Time could also have a somewhat musical aspect (considering Aradia's music boxes as well as Dave's Turntables). A Knight wields their aspect against their enemies, and while most of Dave's uses of Time have been in the clock-keeping sense, I seem to recall an instance where he verbally/intellectually brow-beat Tavros in a slam-poetry-jam. Perhaps there were other foes he bested via rhyming mixed with timing?

Space in terms of dimensions is certainly the more evident part of Jade's aspects, but with the GREEN SUN affects as well as her sprite-self's intuitive know-how, she also seems to have gained inherent knowledge of a number of things including physics and relativity (that we saw as she explained the situation on the ship to Jon). She could have known a lot of that before, of course, but there's also the fact that once she god-tiered, she knew exactly what she had to do in order to get herself and Jon where they needed to go without much outside input on the matter other than Karkat saying that her future self said she would know what to do; (though I haven't re-read the end of Act5 in a while, so I could be remembering things incorrectly.)

[OrangeAipom]

what if the felt were s***b players

[InvertedVoid]

Hey here's a thing I came up with that's relevant to this whole literal/figurative thing:

Vriska as Thief of Light steals fortune. Figuratively.
And, if I'm not mistaken, she literally (for low values of literal) steals Terezi's light, the very light that Aranea would literally heal??? That being her sight? Double mobius reacharound and whatnot?

So yeah.


While I'm here, here's a theory: Jailbreak, which is currently replayingish, had the protagonist fail and die, and then started over with a new instance of the protagonist who had magic powers and used them to escape.
B2 Jack will fail to break the jail, after which point B1 Jack will be thrown in the cell and that Jack will escape.

Oh, and just because of that ironic slickname line, theory scratched sessions get the Midnight Crew. Throwing it out there. I dunno if that's been proposed before. Certainly not after that line came out.

[Zaverxi]

ok how about

vriska steals the green sun (defusing the conflict between GCat and Jade)
and/or
WV eats the orb on Lord English's cane

I'll do you one better:

WV eats Lord English.

It's like the fairy tale of Puss and Boots, the cat tricks the big scary ogre into changing into a mouse and then eats him. Maybe Jade uses her space powers to shrink Lord English and WV eats him.

[Kaleb702]

I'll do you one better:

WV eats Lord English.

It's like the fairy tale of Puss and Boots, the cat tricks the big scary ogre into changing into a mouse and then eats him. Maybe Jade uses her space powers to shrink Lord English and WV eats him.

That one even makes sense! WV only eats green things. WHAT COLOR IS LE? [green]

[gimmethegepgun]

Serious IDE: Dirk's dreamself will be killed during the battle due to his inability to properly control both at once, despite what he tells himself.
It will probably get murdered by something while he's distracted by the drones, or have a situation where he needs to fight with both at once, but is unable, and has to choose.

[spriteless]

How is the B2 queen's ring going to find its way to Andrew, for his ghost to give it to Vriska? Or is it the other way around? Do the rings come from somewhere before the Queens get them?

I mean, it's very clearly the same ring, it can't just be a coincidence.

[Kaleb702]

Andrew was probably just lazy and re-used a ring. foreshadowing how it turns out at one point he time-travelled to B2 before his death and stole the ring, so he could die with it to attempt to give it to Vriska.

[Sparrowsmith]

How is the B2 queen's ring going to find its way to Andrew, for his ghost to give it to Vriska? Or is it the other way around? Do the rings come from somewhere before the Queens get them?

I mean, it's very clearly the same ring, it can't just be a coincidence.

Aha! More people who don't think it's a coincidence (actually, Hussie putting both in one update just SCREAMS relation...)
The furthest ring has weird time/space properties. Meenah has JUST arrived there, but she died billions of years ago (technically).

Hussie could have gone to a different dream bubble first, somehow encountered the ring from the future, then brought it back.
Or Hussie has been in the future all along.

[LandWater]

as if vriska would be satisfied with anything short of allllllll the light. it's probably part of her plan to escape the afterlife.

aradia said that the green sun will "never be destroyed"; she didn't say anything about it being stolen. though UU's "fixed in the abyss for all dUration" might rule that out? maybe it just goes dark when its light is stolen.

vriska could also be the one to snatch LE's cane.

I actually think that stealing LE's cane is pretty legit.
Also, however this Vriska troll makes her comeback, she's probably going to hog all the attention, stealing the limelight in a sense.

ALSO also, first post whoooop hey guys I finally decided to join the forums kay bye I guess.

OMG GAIS ALSO ALSO ALSO: Where the heck has Dad been? I don't have a clue, but I was hoping to maybe stir up a few ideas.

[The Almighty 404]

Vriska will eat the light of the Green Sun and that is why she's immensely fat. All the weight of two universes was redistributed across her timeline.

[simon.clarkstone]

Well darn, it seems that the planets indeed do not exist in the medium until everyone has entered. It was debated when we saw B1 Jack ascend, but this time it really is clear.

I was wrong all this time.