Sex Ed Thread Six (Sex, Gender, and Relationship Q&A)

[wrinklefudger]

Hi, I'm making one of my rare appearances to say that understanding the nuances of various gender topics is becoming so unbelievably confusing to me. Up until half an hour ago I thought transgender and transsexual were the same thing. Now I am being told for the first time that they are different. But that's not all, because I also found out that their definitions are completely relative. That isn't even the end of it, because even if you identify exclusively with the opposite sex, you still decide whether you identify as trans or not. I have so much trouble understanding this for two reasons:
1: I have sort of a need to have the ability to see order in the universe and to be able to classify and rank everything. When I was a simpler, more awful person, I classified everyone by sex. then when I realized sex and gender were different, that ability to classify through a new variable made everything simpler, but now that I realize that you can just choose whether or not you identify as trans, my comfortable little world of boolean logic has collapsed on itself and I know nothing anymore
2: To be honest, I don't really understand how someone can "identify" as a gender. I mean I have a male body, so I guess that makes me male, but I'm not really sure what it means to "feel" male. I'm me. If I had two x chromosomes I would be a girl, but I don't, so i'm not. I'm not really sure how to explain this.

I'm sorry if I messed up and said something offensive here, because there were no offensive intentions. At this point I feel like a blind guy in a mine field.

[Blueberry]

Oh are you doing the new thread? *shrug*. I wouldn't do a silly title though, I never have since it seems to promote a silly atmosphere in the thread.

you can have it if you want! I know this has mostly been your domain.

[Milskidasith]

At this point I consider gender to be pretty much like race: for 99% of people or so, it's a social construct defined mostly by (perceived a bit moreso for race) biological differences between the different groups and has fairly defined boundaries, but 1% or so of people do not believe they fit into this social construct or believe they fit in another place in the social construct, and it's generally pretty bad and very pointless to try to say otherwise regardless of the legitimacy of the issue.

[SkaianRedeemer]

Well that's almost exactly what I'd expect, since 99% of everything I hear on those topics is because somebody linked to Tumblr. I'm not sure what the causality/correlation factor is there, but there's definitely a strong relationship between the tumblr atmosphere and people talking about those things.

I find the numbers interesting (but, like Blueberry, weird that they start so late), but dislike associating the ideas with Tumblr. It's been used by... those opposed... to brush off the issues as "just those idiots on Tumblr". Porrim being a feminist has been cast as a "Tumblr stereotype" recently: as if it were something that did not exist outside of a website that, in the same breath, is often called swill for having it. Delightful. LJ got the same treatment back in its day - and it had a few years for its "day", which is why I find those numbers so strange. But again, I assume it's the axis.

[Hatman Hatmyth Hatlegend]

When did they start compiling those statistics? (also, wayback machine isn't entirely reliable)

[SkaianRedeemer]

When did they start compiling those statistics? (also, wayback machine isn't entirely reliable)

It's a Google Trends search, so it could arguably go all the way back to the start of Google's archives if it doesn't already. One way or another, the chart is accurate: you only get data going back to 2004.

EDIT: For an example of how this data works, "Homestuck" doesn't appear on Google Trends' y-axis until a fifth of the way into 2010. By the way, it looks like the Kickstarter is the most successful press move Andrew's made in the history of the comic (combined with the PBS video, which GT flags as the milestone for the peak). The Cascade jump and pre-Cascade hiatus slump are also entertaining to me.

[Hatman Hatmyth Hatlegend]

'cause A) The term heteronormative was pretty much only used by queer studies scholars before and B) It's not even mainstream yet.

I'm not even remotely surprised.

[Milskidasith]

I find the numbers interesting (but, like Blueberry, weird that they start so late), but dislike associating the ideas with Tumblr. It's been used by... those opposed... to brush off the issues as "just those idiots on Tumblr". Porrim being a feminist has been cast as a "Tumblr stereotype" recently: as if it were something that did not exist outside of a website that, in the same breath, is often called swill for having it. Delightful. LJ got the same treatment back in its day - and it had a few years for its "day", which is why I find those numbers so strange. But again, I assume it's the axis.

While I can understand seeing it as a problem, you can't say "don't associate the ideas with Tumblr" when they're pretty clearly associated with and fostered on Tumblr. The two cannot reasonably be excluded from each other. Granted, certain other concepts (privilege) seem to exist basically entirely on Tumblr for Tumblr, so it's not like these terms are 100% Tumblr... but Tumblr is pretty clearly "the place" for people to talk about and be open about the listed search terms.

[Bandages]

data can't speak for itself, it must be interpreted

so there's plenty of conclusions you can draw from that image, and some of them are contradictory and perhaps some of them might even be consistently true

I personally find it wild that the explosion of "check your cis privilege" and stuff came about with the advent of tumblr. I even watched one of my good friends go from a happy-go-lucky skateboarding and art enthusiast on tumblr in 2009 to having an entirely feminist-genderist-central blog in a manner of years. She can no longer enjoy things because she sees the inherent sexism and inequality in things.

It's funny though, to me. Probably because I don't trifle with gender metaphysics (or most metaphysics). When you give people a way to talk about themselves and examine themselves and relate themselves to everyone else, you better bet it's gonna have some kind of social consequence.

[Milskidasith]

I find 99% of discussions involving privilege to be terrible and not worth having, because the concept seems to have turned more into a way to circlejerk and ignore any outside input by saying "check your privilege" than to actually explain to people that a lot of things they take for granted aren't exactly great for some groups. But of course, I've got average height, straight, white, male, cis, thin (oh god fuck the entire concept of thin privilege), raised christian, suburban, and probably about a dozen other privileges so my opinion on the matter is (apparently) meaningless.

[Drillgorg]

you can have it if you want! I know this has mostly been your domain.

No go ahead

[SkaianRedeemer]

While I can understand seeing it as a problem, you can't say "don't associate the ideas with Tumblr" when they're pretty clearly associated with and fostered on Tumblr. The two cannot reasonably be excluded from each other. Granted, certain other concepts (privilege) seem to exist basically entirely on Tumblr for Tumblr, so it's not like these terms are 100% Tumblr... but Tumblr is pretty clearly "the place" for people to talk about and be open about the listed search terms.

I realize this, but the result is the same. "Angry feminist college student" became "Feminazi" and women studies classes became a subject of misogynist ridicule, to the point of ineffectiveness. The former is a caricature, the latter a joke. It's becoming the same with Tumblr. Maybe the onus is on the the feminists of Tumblr, then, and I guess what I'm saying is "Spread out! You're easier to ignore if you're all in the same place!"

[Fish]

Unfortunately people like to be around people who agree with them. It's good for the individual to have a place away from those who disagree, but it's not really good for the "movement."

We'll see what happens in the next few years though. Maybe these people will take more action in workplaces and colleges and talk to people and stuff. It's the stagnation of ideas that really breeds wackoness.

(note: most tumlbrites are pretty damn reasonable)

[Blueberry]

an unbelievably sexy link appears