Do you have any faith in humanity?

[dialecticBlight]

did you forget every single thing humanity has created in the past 7,000 years

"Every single thing humanity has ever created in the past 7,000 years" does not mean that all 7 billion people in the current day were working together to solve a single, common issue. At many points the groups were significantly smaller, and thus stuff got done, like basically every single technological advance we've ever made.

But take an issue like what humanity needs to survive, put them all in a room, and ask everyone to come to a consensus on what should be done, and what you get is not agreement but fist-fights and accusations and some smartass in the corner saying "Food, water, and shelter" than any actual agreement taking place. I dare anyone reading this to disagree - this is pretty much how it'd play out if you put everyone from Fidel Castro to that random creepy Internet stalker to end up making a decision.

I guess a better way to phrase it instead of intelligence is problem-solving ability.

So... nah, I think my equation checks out, sorry.

EDIT: 100th post, and it couldn't be more of a downer. Sorry guys! Hope you don't... lose faith.

[CryCold]

Humanity's too much to worry about. Concentrate on having faith in yourself. That's all you really need at the end of the day.

Racism works both ways, despite it seeming like it's fine. Having Black History month may instill a sense of pride in some African people, but ultimately it's segregating and sectioning their history to a month of the year, and separation/segregation is exactly what they were trying to fight! If everyone is to be treated equal, we must first scrap these kinds of things. I don't ask for a White History Month or a Male Celebration Day. There are certain celebrations that are nice, however, like establishment celebrations. Things like Canada Day and the 4th of July. These things are celebrating what people have become through their hardships and lessons learned. Birthdays, too, are fine, as it celebrates when you were brought to life on this little slice of probable heaven on the third rock from the sun. I don't know how it would happen though. Talking about this kind of stuff makes one susceptible to a considerable amount of flak.

...

Let's just say I disagree with everything about this and leave it at that.

[kholhaus]

"Every single thing humanity has ever created in the past 7,000 years" does not mean that all 7 billion people in the current day were working together to solve a single, common issue. At many points the groups were significantly smaller, and thus stuff got done, like basically every single technological advance we've ever made.

But take an issue like what humanity needs to survive, put them all in a room, and ask everyone to come to a consensus on what should be done, and what you get is not agreement but fist-fights and accusations and some smartass in the corner saying "Food, water, and shelter" than any actual agreement taking place. I dare anyone reading this to disagree - this is pretty much how it'd play out if you put everyone from Fidel Castro to that random creepy Internet stalker to end up making a decision.

I guess a better way to phrase it instead of intelligence is problem-solving ability.

So... nah, I think my equation checks out, sorry.

The biggest problems with human cooperation are two things;

Experience,

and Mental Variations.

Lives are created differently, as well as brains. We can't all think the same way, but that's the only way we could get 7 billion people to work together.
But sometimes, I wonder. Is it worth it to work for that kind of goal? Like-minded individuals should group with like-minded individuals; not force their ideals upon others. This is how the concept of countries came about. These people all had something in common.
Nowadays, with bloated countries and populations, there's more room for fanatics, mob mentalities, and the mentally deranged.

@crycold; I wrote that part while under medication and headaches. I feel like I didn't describe it very well to be honest. I am talking about a very deep thought that is very difficult to explain to others. It makes sense to me, but I have trouble explaining it in a neutral yet powerful way... I was mainly talking about how pride is a good thing, and you should always believe in who you are or what you do, and keeping traditions is honoring those who came before you. However you shouldn't let it get in the way of your ability to empathize, or segregate yourself in such a way that your traditions or devotion to your history gets in the way of your personal, individual way of thinking.

... I still feel like I can't describe it enough.

[PepperYena]

I have no faith in any aspect. I'm probably one of the biggest... uh, anti-humans on the forum, I suppose. I've got over a million reasons as to why they are so horrible.

I'm going to help out animals and the environment, not kids in africa. If anything, human's populations around the world need to lower. It just keeps rising... and rising... and rising. May even break 20 billion.

[CryCold]

@crycold; I wrote that part while under medication and headaches. I feel like I didn't describe it very well to be honest. I am talking about a very deep thought that is very difficult to explain to others. It makes sense to me, but I have trouble explaining it in a neutral yet powerful way... I was mainly talking about how pride is a good thing, and you should always believe in who you are or what you do, and keeping traditions is honoring those who came before you. However you shouldn't let it get in the way of your ability to empathize, or segregate yourself in such a way that your traditions or devotion to your history gets in the way of your personal, individual way of thinking.

... I still feel like I can't describe it enough.

No I know what you meant. I have heard every variation of this argument under the sun said diplomatically and undiplomatically. I still disagree and part of my lack of faith in others is the mentality that this implies.

[kholhaus]

The mentality that it implies.

Which would be?

I'm not trying to spark anything, just curious.

[MQuinny1234]

I have no faith in any aspect. I'm probably one of the biggest... uh, anti-humans on the forum, I suppose. I've got over a million reasons as to why they are so horrible.

I'm going to help out animals and the environment, not kids in africa. If anything, human's populations around the world need to lower. It just keeps rising... and rising... and rising. May even break 20 billion.

Be glad. Statistically speaking, one way or another, it's going to drop. First drastically, then slowly, and then, it will even off, possibly at 0.

I imagine the deep sea life will definitely survive either way so there's something.

Maybe in 20 billion years time a new race of grey-skinned violent humanoids will be running about with enough sense in their genes to relentlessly cull each other so they don't overpopulate the planet like the last batch of welps.

[kholhaus]

Be glad. Statistically speaking, one way or another, it's going to drop. First drastically, then slowly, and then, it will even off, possibly at 0.

I imagine the deep sea life will definitely survive either way so there's something.

Maybe in 20 billion years time a new race of grey-skinned violent humanoids will be running about with enough sense in their genes to relentlessly cull each other so they don't overpopulate the planet like the last batch of welps.

In further developed countries like Japan, and England I believe, the net growth is negative. They're pretty well-developed countries, and their demographic pyramids are top-heavy, with tons of elderly people, compared to working-class and children. I see it even here in Canada, with every other person I see being elderly. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but either the home for the elderly is doing mass migrations, or gray hair suddenly became fashionable.

[Triangle Man]

I am constantly bouncing between "I believe in the abilities of human reason to overcome our shortcomings and become better than we are" and "Nope, we all want to kill everyone who 'isn't the same as "us" and will probably nuke the planet at some point in the near future' depending on my mood. I can keep track of my overall mood by seeing which one I favour at any given moment.

Currently, my attitude is somewhere along the lines of 'the latter seems to be the norm, but there are enough examples of the former that I figure we'll pull off something special at the last moment'. I try to hold on to this to avoid becoming a reclusive misanthrope, like what happened to J.D. Salinger after those fucking moral guardians trashed Catcher in the Rye without even reading it.

Given enough time to think about this, I can elaborate on my positions...

[PaladinFoster]

I do have faith in humanity. I do because I see all the horrible, terrible, despicable things in humanity, and yet I still can see all that is good and wholesome. I can see that for every Adolf Hitler and every Joseph Kony, there is a Charlie Chaplain and a Martin Luther King Jr. I can see that for every Stephanie Meyer, there is a J. R. R. Tolkien. For every Jersey Shore, there is a Doctor Who. For every war, there is peace. For every famine, there is a time of plenty. For every death, there is a life. This is one dark place we live in, but there is just as much good about it as there is bad, if not more. Sometimes, I find myself reduced to tears by the sheer beauty of it.


Edit:
Also this. Any race which can produce something like that is worthwhile.

[Namboto]

Time for me to go all Roseau Was Right on this thread.

I believe in individuals, but not in groups. This means that I don't believe that you can ever truly group people. There's always going to be an exception.

I believe that humanity has great potential, that individuals have great potential, and they can achieve that potential by working together and lifting each other up. We get problems when people assume that the way to achieve their potential is through bringing others down.

I have faith in humanity, and everything I see to challenge that is countered by a dozen other things that reaffirm it.

[obolisk0430]

I think we as a species stand a decent chance at pulling ourselves to greatness. There are lots of assholes in the world, but from everything I've seen, nothing bad ever lasts forever.

[Wiwaxia]

I think that the vast majority of people in the world are decent people just trying to do what's best for themselves and their family and friends, but hurting others out of their ignorance and fear. I don't think that this will change in the lifetime of humanity, as a species. But it can get better. We can shift things societally and culturally, so basic decency goes farther and hate and fear can't do as much. Sometimes things will get better, and sometimes they'll get worse. But we can always keep fighting to make them better.


Yes, everything good will pass, and all humans and humanity will someday die. But I think it's enough that we existed in the first place. I saw a wonderful quote in the newspaper today: "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."


In conclusion:

(by Ray Troll)

[MQuinny1234]

...Is that a children's book?

[Doofaeus]

Yes and it by the author who also created "The Little Engine who is only marginally talented, so the harder he tried, the more he just hurt the people closest to him"

[Doofaeus]

...And in all seriousness I hope not?

[Wiwaxia]

...Is that a children's book?

Nope, it's a painting by Ray Troll.

Yes and it by the author who also created "The Little Engine who is only marginally talented, so the harder he tried, the more he just hurt the people closest to him"

I... think you're missing the point? It's really supposed to be more uplifting than depressing.

[MQuinny1234]

Tch. Depends on your mindset.

[Wiwaxia]

Tch. Depends on your mindset.

How is "death is not bad" depressing?

[Hatman Hatmyth Hatlegend]

I believe in humanity in that I believe humanity exists. I also believe that humanity will continue to exist long after we're gone, unless the Earth poofs out of existence before we've had the time to colonize other planets and leave some traces there.

I don't believe in humanity because I don't believe much in anything.

I believe in humanity as defined by various ancient philosophers, from Plato to Confucius.

I don't believe in humanity because stupidity is often taken for malice and that simple, easy to correct assumption has created more misery than I care to list.

All in all, I don't believe much in myself but I'll be doing whatever possible so that I believe a little bit more in humanity by the time I'm gone.

[MQuinny1234]

How is "death is not bad" depressing?

Hmm...possibly because it's sad to see people really believe that, but that's not the case with myself, much.

I meant that it depends on your mindset whether or not you can believe that death is a good or bad thing. Sort of a glass half-full, half-empty kinda thing, although I imagine the glass in this case would be mostly empty.

I mean, I think death is a bad thing, necessary perhaps, but bad. Like a prostate exam, or injections.

[Wiwaxia]

Hmm...possibly because it's sad to see people really believe that, but that's not the case with myself, much.

I meant that it depends on your mindset whether or not you can believe that death is a good or bad thing. Sort of a glass half-full, half-empty kinda thing, although I imagine the glass in this case would be mostly empty.

I mean, I think death is a bad thing, necessary perhaps, but bad. Like a prostate exam, or injections.

Oh! I think I see.
No, I'm not talking about being suicidal or looking forward to death (hence the "life is good" bit). I just think that realizing that everything ends, including you, is a better way to live than denying or fearing or hating death.

And I don't see how death can be a bad thing. I mean, one way or another (end of consciousness, afterlife, reincarnation, &c.) you aren't gonna be around to experience it.

It should be noted that both the artist and myself are massive paleontology geeks, so we probably have very different reactions to a bunch of buried skulls than most people.


e. Also, I do hope I don't die young, I have a lot left to do in my life, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of death, or sad when people die. I just don't think it's a bad thing, and it isn't something I should be afraid of (even if I am, if that makes sense)

[MQuinny1234]

Tch. I'm rarely going to accept death as a good part of life. I'll accept knowing it's there but that's it. I don't want it to have anything to do with me. Although, if death and stuff interests you, you may like to read "The End Specialist" A fictional book of a world where first, old age, then even disease, is cured.

Pretty nasty-ass book but a good read.

For example, minor plot points. China first begins branding babies birth-dates onto them, then nukes two of it's own cities.

[ColorofLull]

(In the middle of watching Armageddon)

Bruce Willis gives me all of the hope I need.

[AProcrastinatingWriter]

(In the middle of watching Armageddon)

Bruce Willis gives me all of the hope I need.

Topic is over. Everyone go home.