IDE/Theory Thread 24: The Pink Moon's moon is Io

[simon.clarkstone]

Equius was killed and not kissed, so his dreamself must have died, even if he survived the destruction of Derse. I also doubt he's god tier, because being strangled by a clown (and enjoying it) can in no way be heroic.

He probably wasn't kissed. You never know with Gamzee around.

[cyberHeroine]

He probably wasn't kissed. You never know with Gamzee around.

It doesn't matter if he was kissed or not. The result is the same.

[Doom Zero]

(3) Transporting objects to different universes or through temporal resets takes up a lot of energy, yeah. [...] Maybe the nature of the revision, much more violent and destructive than what normally seems to happen to doomed timelines, and involving reality bending temporal energy, is the distinction between a scratch and offshoot. (1)

(4) I don't think that the kids where are ever are in a doomed timeline. [...] The timelines that we've seen destroyed all have outcomes undesirable for the main cast, more so than the events of the Alpha. (2)
So, for B1 to be truly doomed timeline, some sort of undesirable action must have been taken to create an offshoot, and then prenvented. (3) What was that action? Not completing the scratch? This doesn't seem like the usual event that requires revision. There are no alternative options other than causing the scratch that the main cast requires disuassion from. There was no need for a revision from a timetraveling force. We see ( and I mean literally see. Not that there weren't alternative options, but we never see a doomed timeline created by those options ) no alternate pathways for the main characters to take. The one time a direct revision was applied to the kids session was the Davesprite scenario. (4)

(1) I was thinking that the scratch's energy could also go into supporting the B1 timeline to make sure it still "exists". I don't know exactly why it would do that, but it's one thing I've thought of.

(2) True. However, we can't be sure those undesirable outcomes were necessarily due to the doomed status of the timeline.

(3) Well, no. I don't think we can say that doomed timelines are created by undesirable actions, necessarily. It's possible, but it's not a fool-proof statement.

(4) In my mind, I define timelines rather loosely, but coherently. I've split doomed timelines into two categories. Natural doomed timelines and artificial doomed timelines. You might be interested in this, as it relates to what you've described.
Natural DTL: A doomed timeline caused by normal events of a session. This type of DTL will always happen if it is allowed to happen. One example of this is John blasting off to fight Typheus. That will happen because it is allowed to happen. Davesprite travelled back in time to fix that, to stop it from happening. Thus, it is a natural doomed timeline. A lot of Natural DTLs were created by Karkat and the other players during their session. Aradiabot had to travel back in order to fix their errors.
Artificial DTL: A doomed timeline caused by time travel. This type of DTL happens based on a conscious decision. An example of this would be when DD steals Rose's Journal and Dave travels back in time to try and stop this. The timeline where Dave travels back in time is an Artificial DTL because it's not the alpha timeline and it doesn't have a Hero of Time anymore, because Dave left it.

Now, the example of an Artificial DTL I gave needs another definition to support it.

Timeloop: An instance of time travel where the player of time travels backward in time and eventually returns to where he or she left off. Usually, the player knows about a timeloop before it happens, because they see a future version of themselves running around. Because Dave sees himself running around before he realizes why he needs to go back in time, he has become part of the timeloop. He must travel back in time to become the version of himself that he saw. He never leaves the alpha timeline because his travel through time allows him to eventually end up back where he left off.

If Dave went back in time to prevent the books from being stolen and succeeded in his attempt, his pastself would have come downstairs a minute later to see Dave standing there with the books. Then, his past self would travel back in time to become past Dave, and prevent the books from being stolen in the first place. Then, present Dave would simply go about events as normal, because he would be the only Dave in the timeline once more. No doomed timeline because he had successfully established a timeloop.

I guess that was a pseudo-free standing thought. Good enough.

[mutecebu]

OMGF. Are the trolls and the humans from the same universe (originally; not just in this one), with the trolls creating their own universe. That would be so typical.
But I don't think that's actually the case.

[Sparrowsmith]

OMGF. Are the trolls and the humans from the same universe (originally; not just in this one), with the trolls creating their own universe. That would be so typical.
But I don't think that's actually the case.

Have you watched Cascade?
You must have seen Cascade.
Rewatch Cascade.

[kmsumrall]

IDE has a lot of walls of texts, which I am sure migth be interesting, but without random bolds, bullet points, and nonsensical coloring, I just cant read it.

[xqz]

hmm I might as well crosspost this since it fits better here
even though isn't relevant to what's currently being discussed here either

So I'm about to muse about how the Fluorite Octet work without any context whatsoever

I was wondering after I posted about how Roxy's appearifier was powered how the Octet work. They, depending on the roll, summon various items from nowhere to attack enemies. You could handwave this as being a game construct thing if they had only been used in SGRUB, but we've seen them decapitate Spidermom, which means they have a physical effect on the "real world."
Another thing we know can summon things out of hammerspace is the Sylladex system. So what I'm thinking is that the dice are an early form of sylladex.

The way I imagine the sylladices working is that each card contains a keycode assigned to its own pocket of extradimensional space opened by a main 'hub machine' which is itself kept in the cardspace. Earlier versions would have required a user to have their own computer to keep all the access codes and programs to open the storage pockets, but eventually the system was consolidated so that the card systems were the only objects needed in regular space to access this.

The Gamblignants could have set up their dice to act as RNGs for their access keys, putting some sort of weapon in each pocket, making combat more unpredictable for them (which would, as said in-comic, lead to them eventually all being killed off)
So basically my theory is that the Octet is a highly refined version of the RNG combat system, and the last thing Mindfang did before she locked them up was to store a copy of her soul and gear into the pocket accessed by rolling all eights, which gives the Ancestral Awakening power.

[Scarlet Smiles]

(1) Just gonna say yep and move on.

(2) Also yep. I guess by undesirable, I meant something that would have negatively impacted their entire reality in some way. The doomed timelines have all differed from the Alpha in that they do not result in the creation of the green sun, which is responsible for many of the events in the series via the First Gaurdians, and possibly LE? So, maybe the 'undesirable' aspect extends to all of reality, because it contrasts with the progression of the Alpha timeline.

(3) So yeah, any action that conflicts with the Alpha's chronology. Undesirable wasn't the best way to describe those actions, sorry. Incorrect, maybe? Branching? Meh. Inventing terminology isn't always my strong suit.

(4) I
This
Thank You

[Snowmanne]

IDE: Dirk has this talks with Jake very often, and at the end of each one he wipes Jake's memory from them.
Thats why Jake and dirk didn't talk about the day the empress rose in their part 1 logs

[Sparrowsmith]

IDE has a lot of walls of texts, which I am sure migth be interesting, but without random bolds, bullet points, and nonsensical coloring, I just cant read it.

I hate to admit it... but yeah...

IDE: Dirk has this talks with Jake very often, and at the end of each one he wipes Jake's memory from them.
Thats why Jake and dirk didn't talk about the day the empress rose in their part 1 logs

Or, after over two years, Jake just shrugged it off? I mean, I imagine it was a big deal for a while, but eventually he's gotta get used to it.

[Snowmanne]

I hate to admit it... but yeah...



Or, after over two years, Jake just shrugged it off? I mean, I imagine it was a big deal for a while, but eventually he's gotta get used to it.

But he knows that it will happen on 11/11/11, and he talked to Dirk on that day. If you learned three years ago that the world will be destroyed today, then even if you got used to the fact during those three years, you would FTFO today.

[cyberHeroine]

Roxy did mention the end of the world in her first log with Jake.

Jake doesn't really seem to have time to flip the fuck out about anything, he's always being attacked by monsters and robots. And being knocked out by things.

[Sparrowsmith]

I think if Dirk had the ability to erase minds, he would have come out of the closet by now, and the love quadriangle would be instaresolved.
So Jake probably knows. He might have forgotten through some other means, but it looks like he knows, and just doesn't mention it. Dirk has been telling him that it's not exactly something he can stop, so maybe he's just okay to let it happen.
Does Jake know about the game? I think he does. Maybe that's why he hasn't mentioned anything.

[Storm980]

Hmm,

I think Gamzee will prototype the Kernelsprites with trolls that have had some sort of love interest with eachother.

It would make sense, as Tavriska has already (even though shortlived) happened.
If so, the rest would be:

Nepequis
Feferidan or Follux

[eruditeColossus]

Roxy did mention the end of the world in her first log with Jake.

Jake doesn't really seem to have time to flip the fuck out about anything, he's always being attacked by monsters and robots. And being knocked out by things.

Didn't he mention something about having to send the bunny to Jade by today? Maybe that's why he wants to do by the end of the day.

[Ace Rimmer]

IDE: Fiduspawn is Sufferer propaganda.

Think about it: Fiduspawn stands for bravery, kindness, and overcoming differences which is the same thing that the sufferer tried to propose, but on a much bigger scale.

Fiduspawn is actually badass.

[Sho.ker]

You suddenly realize that if the Alpha kids get to the new universe before Gamzee uses up all the kernelsprites
1.) They have Bro's dead body (and John's dad/Rose's Mom)
2.) Dead Dave bodies (more than one davesprite for fuckery)

I'd enjoy another davesprite just for the hell of it. You can't have enough daves. I'd assume Bro/Mom/Dad from the alpha universe are out of the picture so the 1st option probably won't be happening sadly. Or maybe Dirk actually does revive his Dave ancestor upon entering.

[WaskoDS]

Okay, doesn't look like anybody has posted this:
* UU/uu are from B2, far in the future in comparison to any of the kids.

[cyberHeroine]

Okay, doesn't look like anybody has posted this:
* UU/uu are from B2, far in the future in comparison to any of the kids.

That theory has been posted several times. It is also completely wrong.

[Branetheory]

That theory has been posted several times. It is also completely wrong.

Characters have been wrong about what situation they are in before.

[cyberHeroine]

There's also the fact that if they're in B2, they'd also have to be in B1. And there's been no trace of them until the Scratch.

[reignonyourparade]

There's also the fact that if they're in B2, they'd also have to be in B1. And there's been no trace of them until the Scratch.

Then why aren't there a bunch of lusii in B1.

[azhdrake]

Okay, doesn't look like anybody has posted this:
* UU/uu are from B2, far in the future in comparison to any of the kids.

It has been thought of before, and the only real problem is the fact that UU said that she was from a different universe.

[Branetheory]

There's also the fact that if they're in B2, they'd also have to be in B1. And there's been no trace of them until the Scratch.

Not true. B1 and B2 received quite different Frog Temples with quite different first guardians inside. Since both frog temples landed in the same place , we can conclusively prove that not every meteor went to both B1 and B2.

It has been thought of before, and the only real problem is the fact that UU said that she was from a different universe.

My point is that trolls have been wrong about their physical and metaphysical situations many, many times before.

[azhdrake]

Not true. B1 and B2 received quite different Frog Temples with quite different first guardians inside. Since both frog temples landed in the same place , we can conclusively prove that not every meteor went to both B1 and B2.



My point is that trolls have been wrong about their physical and metaphysical situations many, many times before.

That is a good point, however it should be noted that UU seems to know her shit, with the exception of some details. Personally, I like this theory, but I like poking holes in everything.