IDE/Theory Thread 24: The Pink Moon's moon is Io

[d2r123]

IDE: there will be a page which is called;
John: unknowingly reunite with your trusty blanket

[d2r123]

IDE: there will be a page which is called;
John: unknowingly reunite with your trusty blanket

[Kaana]

IDE: Roxy's land will be known as ROLAL

Realm Of Liquor And ... I'm actually not sure about the second L, but I think it could work.

[cyberHeroine]

Something that I read somewhere that made sense to me was that a Heroic death was by the judgment of the godtiered person, and a Just death was by the judgment of the killer. If you are a god, and you feel that you are doing something heroic, that is what makes it heroic. If you feel that a god is doing something unjust and that they need to be brought to justice (as Terezi did at the time of killing Vriska), then that is what it takes to make it just and them permadead.

This would mean however that if a god is unjustly accused of a crime, they can still receive a "just" death. I think it makes more sense for Paradox Space to decide, as it is the only "being" with all the relevant information.

[Snowmanne]

Theory:
Each aspect has both a literal/figgurative and core meaning, for active classes the literal meaning applies to them and the core those they use their powers on, and vice versa in passive classes.
Breath - Wind - Confidence/Motivation
Heart - Soul - Personal unity
Hope - Faith - Future (Eridan was active, it's implied that his wand was powered by his own hope)
Rage - Anger - Power
Time - Time - Sacrifice
Life - Life - Meaning
Void - Hiding - Faults
Mind - Thought/Understanding - Will/Wisdom
Light - Sight - Fortune

Not sure about Doom, Blood and Space, but I think I'm onto something.

Here are my ideas, changes I think work better are bolded

Doom - Destruction - Ending (The verb)
Blood - Group unity - Emotions
Space - Conjuration/Manipulation - Creation

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

IDE: Roxy's land will be known as ROLAL

Realm Of Liquor And ... I'm actually not sure about the second L, but I think it could work.

Too bad it's Land of ___ and ___

As for lands, I think that the B2 Kids are going to have nontraditional elements that their lands are themed. Like Wood for Jane, Mercury/Metal/Salt for Jake, Aether for Roxy, and Sulfur for Dirk, maybe? I don't know. I just really want a pattern of some kind.

[The Mather1]

Here are my ideas, changes I think work better are bolded

Doom - Destruction - Ending (The verb)
Blood - Group unity - Emotions
Space - Conjuration/Manipulation - Creation

Except ending and creation aren't symbolical meanings within a person or group, and unity and conjuration/manipulation aren't directly related to the name of their aspect.

Better literatelies for Blood and Space would be relation and mass

[Blaperile]

IDE/Theory: The Condesce is going to assassinate (some of) the Denizens once the players are in the game.

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

IDE: Jane's land will be the Land of Mist and Wood.

Mist is like Dew, which we saw is probably for heroes of Life like Feferi, and Wood for her element.

[cyberHeroine]

The Maid part is more likely to be something associated with music, like Aradia's Melody.

[Blaperile]

Jane's land is obviously going to be the Land of Batter Ends You

OBEY!

[The_Codfish]

IDE/Theory: The Condesce is going to assassinate (some of) the Denizens once the players are in the game.

The Denizens are pretty powerful, though. The Condesce herself may be the only one capable of taking one out.

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

What would the Condesce want with a Denizen? I doubt she can even collect the grist.

[Blaperile]

What would the Condesce want with a Denizen? I doubt she can even collect the grist.

To disturb the Lands or something? I dunno.

The Denizens are pretty powerful, though. The Condesce herself may be the only one capable of taking one out.

It is implied though that at least some of the Trolls killed their Denizens themselves.

[Stormspirit]

What would the Condesce want with a Denizen? I doubt she can even collect the grist.

Well, a Denizen is very helpful to the player if they can complete their quest. Killing one is eliminating a big source of informations; useful informations that is sometimes vital to the session.

[LMLYP]

It is implied though that at least some of the Trolls killed their Denizens themselves.

All of them did, except Tavros, who made a fatal bargain with Typheus.

[Wriggler needs a name]

IDE: Fenestrated Planes not only take you through the Furthest Ring but through the Dream Bubbles specifically.

[Conspicuous]

All of them did, except Tavros, who made a fatal bargain with Typheus.

That's never really been proven, it's just Vriska speculating that there's absolutely no way he could've defeated Typheus, after which John speculates Tavros simply talked to Typheus.

Even though Tavros is actually pretty capable physically.

[The_Codfish]

To disturb the Lands or something? I dunno.



It is implied though that at least some of the Trolls killed their Denizens themselves.

I wasn't clear, sorry, but I wasn't saying the players couldn't take out a Denizen. Just saying that there's nobody under the Condesce's employ is capable of taking out a Denizen, which is why if she actually wanted to kill them, she'd have to do it herself.

Even though Tavros is actually pretty capable physically.

I'm, uh, not sure where you got this. Considering that, at the time he'd have met his Denizen, Tavros would still be in a rocketchair or riding on Horsaroni.

[Blaperile]

I wasn't clear, sorry, but I wasn't saying the players couldn't take out a Denizen. Just saying that there's nobody under the Condesce's employ is capable of taking out a Denizen, which is why if she actually wanted to kill them, she'd have to do it herself.



I'm, uh, not sure where you got this. Considering that, at the time he'd have met his Denizen, Tavros would still be in a rocketchair or riding on Horsaroni.

Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I guess she could do it herself too. I just mean that she's trying to screw up the game. She's trying/tried to kill Jane, Dirk and Roxy pre-entry by assassination attempts, drones, and drones again respectively. It's quite reasonable that she had some hand in what the agents have been doing as well, (trying to) kill(ing) the dreamselves of the players, taking out the Black Queen, and taking out the White King and Black King (though I wouldn't be surprised if BQ is simply exiled or as a slave of LE or something).

__

Aradiabot said during her exposition in the EOA5A1 that all Trolls were at the top of their echeladder by the time they fought the Black King. This would mean that Tavros might have been strong enough to fight his denizen. Though I don't think he did that. He would have at least been capable.

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

That's never really been proven, it's just Vriska speculating that there's absolutely no way he could've defeated Typheus, after which John speculates Tavros simply talked to Typheus.

Even though Tavros is actually pretty capable physically.

Also psychically.

[The_Codfish]

As John and, humorously, Jane have shown, a Player doesn't need to fight to go up one's echeladder. What with all the puzzle-solving and treasure hunting Tavros did with Vriska, and also, Underling-taming, Tavros could have gone up his echeladder with only a minimal need to fight. And the only time we've ever seen him fight was when he adventured with Vriska, and after she godtiered, she said Tavros spent the rest of the game just sleeping.

She always speaks in hyperbole, but considering how traumatized Tavros was and how he told Jade the only time he ever had fun was when he was asleep, it's not hard to think that Tavros really did spend the rest of the game sleeping. Of course, we don't really have much of a 'timeline' of the Trolls' session to know just how much time there was until the confrontation with the Black King from the time when Vriska godtiered, so it could be that 'the rest of the session' was pretty short.

Also, yeah, Tavros likely (as in, most definitely) did not fight his Denizen. Kanaya as well, I suppose? And maybe Feferi too. Nepeta may not have if Equius wasn't adventuring with her all the time.

[The Mather1]

Actually, the only ones we can really know for certain are Vriska and Eridan, Vriska because she's the one who said they killed them; Eridan because he massacred his whole land.
But I'm pretty sure we can add Gamzee to the list of trolls who most definitely did not kill their denizens.

[cyberHeroine]

It's actually more likely that Nepeta initiated combat than Equius. When you get through her cutesy outer shell, she's a hunter. The fact that Gamzee easily defeated her is just a testament to how powerful Gamzee is.

[Blaperile]

As John and, humorously, Jane have shown, a Player doesn't need to fight to go up one's echeladder. What with all the puzzle-solving and treasure hunting Tavros did with Vriska, and also, Underling-taming, Tavros could have gone up his echeladder with only a minimal need to fight. And the only time we've ever seen him fight was when he adventured with Vriska, and after she godtiered, she said Tavros spent the rest of the game just sleeping.

She always speaks in hyperbole, but considering how traumatized Tavros was and how he told Jade the only time he ever had fun was when he was asleep, it's not hard to think that Tavros really did spend the rest of the game sleeping. Of course, we don't really have much of a 'timeline' of the Trolls' session to know just how much time there was until the confrontation with the Black King from the time when Vriska godtiered, so it could be that 'the rest of the session' was pretty short.

Also, yeah, Tavros likely (as in, most definitely) did not fight his Denizen. Kanaya as well, I suppose? And maybe Feferi too. Nepeta may not have if Equius wasn't adventuring with her all the time.

Yeah, I know they don't have to fight to level-up, but I mean they probably do get stronger if they get higher on the Echeladder, even if they didn't fight.

So I think Tavros would theoretically have been strong enough to fight his denizen, but he didn't.