Choice Asspects and Class-y Discussion V2.0

[Ranter]

An idea "sentient aspect" rather tarnished by the conspicuous scarcity of support in anyone's case but John's.

...and Aradia's. Jade's if you count the universe frog as being both alive and the object of her aspect.

[trulyElse]

...and Aradia's. Jade's if you count the universe frog as being both alive and the object of her aspect.

If you count Jade, you have to count Kanaya too. So four.

[Ranter]

Rose's, when you recognize that the Alpha timeline is not random, but chosen.
Although I do feel that would fall more under Doom than Light.

So, five, potentially six.
Less noticable, I think, because Seer and Thief control their aspect more than are controlled by it.
The same goes for Dave's Knight, as opposed to Aradia's Maid.

[Wessolf27]

Rose's, when you recognize that the Alpha timeline is not random, but chosen.
Although I do feel that would fall more under Doom than Light.

Void seems to be more in the control of Horrorterrors however, since it is their domain. And Doom seems more likely to be a side-effect or the aspect of either Paradox Space or Lord English in which misfortune freezes the timeline into certain critical choices or actions that must be taken else be led into a doomed timeline.

[KentVonce]

Maybe controlled isn't really the proper term. Affected might work though. Some classes may be more affected than their aspect while others would use them to affect themselves or others. Rogues and Thieves may affect their aspect through theft. Same goes for Knights if they use their aspect as weapons or whatever. The Prince and Bard may directly affect the aspect if so considering the "destroy aspect" and "Allow aspect to be destroyed" parts. Although in the same way, a Prince would use the aspect to affect others "Destroy through aspect" while the Bard might qualify as being affected "Invite destruction through aspect." The bard's second function might be a sort of invocation? Realizing the aspect within one's self to cause destruction?

[Ranter]

Yes, I remember that part of the theory mentioned amazement at thet suddenness and unpredictability of Gamzee's reaction, as opposed to Eridan's. Eridan's murder spree was understandable considering his personality and motivation, and the cues he had shown over the course of the game. Gamzee's was frankly out of nowhere. Dave's exhibition of ICP offended Gamzee, sure, but that was not exactly the first time someone had made fun of his religon. Look back in Hivebent and you'll see that his friends did it to his face all the time. Lack of pie was no excuse either, there were alchemiters everywhere, and I find it hard to believe that it was the first time he had been sober. If he had gone off of sopor on Alternia, would he really have realized suddenly that it was bad for him and quit, or would he have simply gone back on the pie again? I'm tended to think more towards the latter, so what made him so suddenly convinced of the slime's deteriorating effect on the meteor?

And what is the difference between "destroying" and "allowing to destroy" if not that being a part of one's role for certain classes is to follow his aspect's lead?

And if this is true, can we expect the same from Roxy as the passive rogue? Will Life, over time, be evident to have a life of it's own, so to speak, under Jane's Maid?

[Legendary]

I'm sure there's a reason you called Rose a Thief but for the life of me I cannot figure out why!

[KentVonce]

Lack of pie was no excuse either, there were alchemiters everywhere...
And what is the difference between "destroying" and "allowing to destroy" if not that being a part of one's role for certain classes is to follow his aspect's lead?

I don't think there were alchemiters everywhere. Those would have been left on their planets. Unless they had the capacity to move the alchemiters onto the meteor, which seems nigh impossible.

"Destroying" means that you actively engage in the destruction of the aspect. "Allowing to destroy" would in effect be the passive. You let someone else do the destroying. In fact with this meaning it can be easy to see why Bards can cause sudden Win/Lose situations. A Bard of Light, for example:

He can invite the destruction of his foes simply by being fortuitous/lucky. Or if he allowed the destruction of Luck, then his team would forever be having the worst outcomes. Anything which requires a certain amount of probability, then becomes improbable. Bards of Life can easily lose life, in that regard, or cause destruction by merely being alive or the saving of life. It's not exactly taking the lead as it is being "Active" or "Passive." Doing it yourself, or not doing anything as someone else does it.

I don't think it was the sopor slime pie ALONE that drove Gamzee to the edge. Karkat says that he used this Rage against the Black King to cause severe damage but afterwards merely returned to being high. Gamzee was also pacified by Karkat even when there was no more pie. Perhaps it's just the Bard kicking in.

I don't think that the theory of Aspects having some sort of effect on some classes ties into the passive/active dichotomy. Both the Rogue and the Thief seem to use the aspect rather than follow it. The Seer seems to follow the aspect as opposed to using it.

I've always wondered, what would a Seer of Breath see?

[Legendary]

I don't think there were alchemiters everywhere. Those would have been left on their planets. Unless they had the capacity to move the alchemiters onto the meteor, which seems nigh impossible.

New proposal: Every time someone says this, everyone shouts ERIDAN'S WAND at them over and over again until they either apologize publicly for their mistake or commit suicide.

[Doc Scratch]

Wording is everything in Homestuck my good friend. And I would say Seer and Mage are viable, assuming pairings disregard gender or those two are gender neutral.

[Vanymstorm]

...and Aradia's. Jade's if you count the universe frog as being both alive and the object of her aspect.

Anybody else remember how out-of-place it seemed when Aradia suddenly referred to her and Dave having a "master" all of once, didn't explain it all that well, and then never really brought it up again? I do. That's what "scarcity" looks like. Color me suspicious.

I could possibly buy the part about Jade (and by extension Kanaya) if BSlick's personal agenda or even awareness were ever actually addressed.

Rose's, when you recognize that the Alpha timeline is not random, but chosen.

The explanation we've actually been given for the alpha timeline is that the system develops it organically. Further, Light is actually the best example of exactly what I mean. Any machination thus far has been attributed not to a force, but to opposing forces from within the system, none of which have been presented as truly governing destiny themselves. The more we learn about the forces in play, the clearer it becomes that fate isn't an entity; it's just another battleground.

I've always wondered, what would a Seer of Breath see?

In a literal sense? Not much more than any other Seer. As far as overall enhanced perceptions? Imagine catching snatches of distant conversation on the wind. Imagine tracing the trajectory for a falling moon in your head in order to time the release just right. Imagine being able to know when your foes are blinking. Hell, imagine not getting dizzy on the Tilt-o-Whirl.

New proposal: Every time someone says this, everyone shouts ERIDAN'S WAND at them over and over again until they either apologize publicly for their mistake or commit suicide.

Seconded so hard; you have no idea.

Wording is everything in Homestuck my good friend. And I would say Seer and Mage are viable, assuming pairings disregard gender or those two are gender neutral.

Truly neutral classes were conspicuously excluded by the wording of UU's introduction to the issue. And try not to fall into the trap of both passive classes being the same gender. Not PC.

[Ranter]

I'm sure there's a reason you called Rose a Thief but for the life of me I cannot figure out why!

Typo.
I was in a rush. I'd typed it in school and the bell had just rung.

[KentVonce]

New proposal: Every time someone says this, everyone shouts ERIDAN'S WAND at them over and over again until they either apologize publicly for their mistake or commit suicide.

And I must now die. FARWELL CRUEL WORLD.

Sorry, quite a blunder I made there.

[Majora787]

I don't know about the Mage at all, but the Seer outfit honestly seems pretty gender neutral to me. Compared to the Witch and Sylph, which both seem like they are probably (or definitely in the case of the Witch) female exclusive. Maybe they're usually female, if anything.

I honestly hope maybe we can learn about the Page more than the "untapped potential" comment soon enough? If we were really lucky it would either make or break my slightly-crack 14 class theory.

[Kaleb702]

Definition of sylph:

1. An imaginary spirit of the air.
2. A slender woman or girl.

So, sylph is definitely female-exclusive, or all sylphs are imaginary.

[trulyElse]

Definition of sylph:

1. An imaginary spirit of the air.
2. A slender woman or girl.

So, sylph is definitely female-exclusive, or all sylphs are imaginary.

(S)He was not denying that Sylph was female-exclusive. (S)He was poiting out that compared to Sylph, Seer + Mage seem gender-neutral.

[Kaleb702]

I was just clarifying that it is definite, not probable (Unless we go crackpot theory time and make all sylphs imaginary).

[.Chika]

Hello !
It might be complete bullshit, OR obvious bullshit that someone has already pointed out, but I found something concerning active/passive pairs.

According to this page, +/- counterparts might have the "same" dreamer outfit, (or pretty close). We already know that Thief/Rogue is a pair, as well as Prince/Bard. Vriska and Nepeta have exactly the same outfit, except than one is Prospitian and the other is Dersite. It's quite the same for Eridan and Gamzee, without Eridan's cape and scarf. So perhaps, in the troll's sessions, +/- counterparts were also on different moons. I'm less sure of this later fact.
However, some of them have some parts of their regular outfit, like Feferi's and Kanaya's skirts, so I'm mostly basing my argument on the tops.

But maybe it's just a stupid coincidence.

[Legendary]

Sollux's outfit matches Equius's, Eridan's and Gamzee's though, and I believe Aradia's (not pictured obviously) is mostly the same as Vriska's and Nepeta's. Kanaya's top is the same as Feferi's and Terezi's, and sure enough Tavros and Karkat have the same outfit. So that theory is out.

[Doc Scratch]

And try not to fall into the trap of both passive classes being the same gender. Not PC.

Wait what? I can't make any sense out of that for some reason...

Are you saying that both are passive? Or on another topic altogether? Sorry if it's obvious, I've been really behind lately, with a fever and AP testing going on.

[The_Unoriginal]

According to this page, +/- counterparts might have the "same" dreamer outfit, (or pretty close). We already know that Thief/Rogue is a pair, as well as Prince/Bard.

Going from this I'm seeing... (And completely passing over what Legendary pointed out (Sorry))

Heir/Mage
Page/Knight
Seer/Witch(?)
Sylph/Maid(?)

Followed by the pairs we already know.

[smashmaniac2008]

Seer of Breath = forecaster, that might sound shitty but can you imagine how great of a marksman they'd be? XD

[Storm980]

Seer of Breath = forecaster, that might sound shitty but can you imagine how great of a marksman they'd be? XD

We have the world's best weatherman up in this shit now

[Kaleb702]

That... is... so hilarious it turns awesome. WEATHERMAN HERO GO.

[Majora787]

So. Maybe a little bit more implication to support Pages providing others with their aspect? I dunno.

Just trying to throw something out there.

On the Seer of breath thing, I saw them as sort of... Oh god, for lack of a better explanation... They'd be able to see if the enemy's power level is over 9,000.