Choice Asspects and Class-y Discussion V2.0

[Delenance]

Rage is a weird aspect. It is very clear in what it is, but not in how it could interact with the class. For example, a Rogue of Rage could calm down angered teammates, but how could that rage be used to benefit them? Same with Rogue of Doom.

[Menen]

Rage is a weird aspect. It is very clear in what it is, but not in how it could interact with the class. For example, a Rogue of Rage could calm down angered teammates, but how could that rage be used to benefit them? Same with Rogue of Doom.

You could calm down the Black King while fighting him... Or even calm down Jack Noir.

A Rouge of Doom.. Stealing and Doom....

No idea.

[Matrix]

Re: Maid of Mind:

I have a Maid of Mind in my sburbventure, Edgestuck. I interpret the Mind aspect to be about decisions, seeing as what Terezi does is to see what sorts of decisions are available to her and her comrades and help them make the right ones. So for my Maid of Mind, I had him make multiple decisions simultaneously by splitting up like Many Worlds Mario.

[Arcanum]

Doom can be interpreted as Death, as the antithesis to Life. A Thief of Doom would "Steal the death," and would have a recoil-based healing system, where she can heal her allies at the cost of damage to her self.

Of course thats speculation, but thats what this thread is for

e: im an idiot

[Nar]

Doom can be interpreted as Death, as the antithesis to Life. A Rogue of Doom would "Steal the death," and would have a recoil-based healing system, where she can heal her allies at the cost of damage to her self.

Of course thats speculation, but thats what this thread is for

I feel like that would go better with Thief of Doom.

I think rogue would heal one and sick it on another.

[Arcanum]

I feel like that would go better with Thief of Doom.

I think rogue would heal one and sick it on another.

Goddamn yeah I got mixed up on what was what. Mine would be for Thief of Doom, edited

But since Rogue steals things for her allies, that would make a healer role even more haphazard. I think that would be a good role for a triple-crosser, however (betrays her team to join the enemies, and then betrays them by stealing her friend's doom and applying it to her enemy-allies).

[amiableTemplar]

It seems I stand corrected on the shoes thing. *shrug* Ah well. Probably me projecting what I want to see onto the information available.

Rage is a weird aspect. It is very clear in what it is, but not in how it could interact with the class. For example, a Rogue of Rage could calm down angered teammates, but how could that rage be used to benefit them? Same with Rogue of Doom.

A Rogue of Rage might get people 'in the zone'--perhaps not blindingly enraged, but pumped and ready for battle--while sapping the enemy's fervor at the same time...not making them disheartened, just throwing them out of the mental place they need to be in order to fight properly. A Rogue of Doom....that's a tough one. Possibly taking the deadliness out of the attacks used by enemies, and powering up allies' deadliness? Sort of an 'aura of accuracy/damage' kind of thing, sapping enemies' while boosting allies'.

[Varkarrus]

I like to imagine Thief of Doom to be a very sacrificial class. You steal your enemies doom, but in doing so draw their ire.

[astuteBookworm]

I like to imagine Thief of Doom to be a very sacrificial class. You steal your enemies doom, but in doing so draw their ire.

Well, thieves presumably steal for their own benefit. Possibly there's a reversal between rogues and thieves if it would hurt the recipient; that is, rogues stealing doom for themselves, and thieves stealing doom to push on others.

[Delenance]

I really hope the intermisson involves us getting more exposition on these things.

[Frost]

Any consensus on what powers Roxy is likely to get? We know she blacks out the entire session (by unknown means), but the ability to hide from scrying strikes me as a pretty lame power by itself, especially if she ascends to godhood. And we know that invisibility is a Void power, but it doesn't seem to fit with the whole "for the benefit of others" thing.

I feel like Hussie must have given us enough information to solve the puzzle, or the whole Rogue/Void exposition from uu would have been pretty pointless. And it probably won't be intuitively obvious at all, else the exposition wouldn't have been necessary in the first place (see: Jane, John, Dave). This has been sort of bugging me, if you can't tell.

We know that void is the "essence of lack or nothingness", especially of knowledge; we know that rogues steal for the benefit of others; and we know that a fully-realized Rogue of Void could do "some completely astonishing things". I'm thinking a Thief of Void would be the classic Assassin class (invisibility, affinity with shadows, extremely deudly), but what the heck will a Rogue of Void be like?

...an illusionist, maybe? Invisibility, disguises, false images, blinding flashes, etc. Would it count as stealing "knowledge"? Bit of a stretch, I guess. [e: It would also fit pretty well thematically with the way Rose was completely confused w/r/t her relationship with Mom.]

[cardiacAtrophy]

She could probably serve to give others invisibility, or at least do something so that the enemy doesn't notice her allies.

[Storm980]

Remember guys, just because you're listed as a Class it doesnt mean it has TOTAL control of what your powers would be.
Hussie said that your class mirrors what kind of journy Sburb has prepared for you and your planet, etc.
Everyone gets their normal powers (Like windy things, and time travel)
It doesnt necessarily mean that you are only limited to what your class dictates.

[Ekul]

Remember guys, just because you're listed as a Class it doesnt mean it has TOTAL control of what your powers would be.
Hussie said that your class mirrors what kind of journy Sburb has prepared for you and your planet, etc.
Everyone gets their normal powers (Like windy things, and time travel)
It doesnt necessarily mean that you are only limited to what your class dictates.

True, after all, Dirk's fractured self manifests even if he is a "destroyer of heart"
A class is never a limitation, only a specialty.

[Altum]

I don't think focusing on what powers a class/aspect combo confers is very useful, especially when looking at the comic. Ultimately the classes and aspects are storytelling mechanics, and the powers they confer are plot devices Andrew uses to accomplish things. The classes are tropes, representing different types of protagonists who have different stories added into the mix. Their powers will be whatever they need to manifest to complete that story in a compelling, thematically appropriate way.

I can understand investigating it from an "awesome powahz" direction f you are playing in your own session and want to have some RPG-style guidelines. (Although I still think a better way to go would be to use class and aspect to figure out your character's personal narrative arc within the session, and tailor powers to fit.) But for the comic itself it's totally the wrong way to look at it. You're better off trying to speculate on what will happen in the story and what part Roxy will need to play in it, and deriving the powers she will need from that. I don't think *anybody* could have guessed that Heirs could make a drill with their powers before John needed to dig for a Tumor.

[Dragonstorm]

Well someone could have. I mean, if you can make a hurricane, you could make a tornado drill.

As for a Rogue of Rage, well, I guess the function can be relatively straightforward? Sapping the rage/emotion/fighting spirit from your foes and distributing it to your teammates. I'd actually imagine a Rogue of Rage to be a calming influence in a group of players. When one player gets too emotional, the rogue can step forward and let the whole group work together to calm them down. The same thing could work in a fight. I can imagine that this can get detrimental if the foe is exceptionally angry - even if the anger is distributed evenly in the party, it can be so significant that it can cause discord within the party.

[Frost]

Ultimately the classes and aspects are storytelling mechanics, and the powers they confer are plot devices Andrew uses to accomplish things.

But the foreshadowing and teasing for the Alpha kids' powers has become sort of overwhelming, almost on par with the distri/rolal thing. We've had a full-on lecture for two of them, and some heavy hints for a third. Why would Hussie bother to establish all these rules if he's not going to follow them through?

Classpects do seem to influence a player's story and role as much as their superpowers, but there's still a strong correlation there, especially for the powers which have been revealed more recently (Dave's, Rose's, Terezi's, maybe Jane's). I think it's a matter of Hussie coming up with all these rules sometime towards the end of act 5 act 2, and trying frantically to tie all of the existing powers into a coherent system.

I really hope the intermisson involves us getting more exposition on these things.

It'd be nice if it opened with a page from Rose's journal which drops all the teasing and just flatly describes a bunch of classes. It'd be less forced than trying to dump all this info through dialogue, at least.

[Dragonstorm]

It'd be nice if it opened with a page from Rose's journal which drops all the teasing and just flatly describes a bunch of classes. It'd be less forced than trying to dump all this info through dialogue, at least.

That would be delightful.

Hussie won't do that. He leaves things open to our own interpretation, occasionally feeding tidbits of information through the story. Almost everything about Homestuck is meant for our interpretation, though some rules are set in stone. We never got a solid method of arrangement for dreamers and their moons, or how planets are generated, or how even classes and aspects function (somewhat). It's this ambiguity that gives this thread so much to discuss.

[Ashendant]

Doom can be interpreted as Death, as the antithesis to Life. A Thief of Doom would "Steal the death," and would have a recoil-based healing system, where she can heal her allies at the cost of damage to her self.

Of course thats speculation, but thats what this thread is for

e: im an idiot

I don't think Doom can be literally translated into death or a antithesis of Life, i see it being a antithesis of Light.

1. Inevitable destruction or ruin.
2. Fate, especially a tragic or ruinous one.
3. A decision or judgment, especially an official condemnation to a severe penalty.
4. Judgment Day.
5. A statute or ordinance, especially one in force in Anglo-Saxon England.
tr.v. doomed, doom·ing, dooms
1. To condemn to ruination or death. See Synonyms at condemn.
2. To destine to an unhappy end.

Using the dictionary as attempt to understand the Doom aspect we can speculate that Doom translates more into fate or inevitability of Death, Ruin or Unhappiness than Death itself. In a way Hussie also hinted that Godtiering Doom players would always have two dream selves that would be Doomed to fight for eternity if the original body gotiered, forcing them to doom the first body for a successful Godtier with the second body into the third body or trying the first and being doomed to fight for eternity. Resulting in the player of Doom to suffer doom before godtiering or being eternally doomed after.

Well i have kinda of Fan story(no idea what's the name of it in this Fandom?) idea in my head(no motivation art skills or such) and there are 2 Doom players in it, Thief of Doom and Seer of Doom, which i'll try to speculate on them.

The Thief of Doom would be, like someone pointed out, a sacrificial class at least before god-tiering.
From Vriska's role in her game, Thieves start with absence of their aspect and must gain it in the game, however a Thief is also a active class that benefits itself with aspect, i don't think that a Thief of Doom would start with less of their aspect. Since there's no way to benefit from Doom or suffer from lack of it, i think that a Thief of Doom would start with a excess of Doom unwittingly taken from those around him or his fellow players(which in my fanon translates into a weakness disease). As he progressed trough the game the Thief would get more and more control over the doom he receives, to the point that he would stop protecting others if it stopped benefiting him, or directly trading protection from doom for favours(like Grist or Levels of the Echeladder).
A fully realised Thief of Doom would be in full control of what doom comes his way or other players, much like Vriska was in full control over whetever she would use her light powers or not.
In short i would think a Thief of Doom would not act as a traditional Thief since there's no way you can steal Doom for your own benefit. Instead he would act more like a Loan-shark(protection from doom with favours) and later a italian mobster that dispose trash cheaply in a illegal way(getting rid of doom from itself or others).

A Seer of Doom using Terezi, Sollux and Rose as a arguments would be a player that would either be deeply related with doomed timelines which i think is trough the voice of doomed timeline players. The reason why i said voice is because, while Rose saw with her eyes (the Light players have been connected to eyesight, Vriska manipulated luck with her eyes, Aranea was able to help others see, Rose saw the future with her eyes), Terezi saw with the forehead(third eye=eye of the mind), Sollux heard Doom, which makes me think that Doom is related with voices(Think Eldritch abominations, like the Old Gods from WOW whispering doom into your hears).
In this way a Seer of Doom would hear how doomed timelines resulted in failure and would guide her fellow players on what not do to avoid failure, much like Rose(or Aradia) said she could guide players to the path of victory, a Seer of Doom would guide her fellow players away from the path to failure.

This is all i have to say about Doom which is a lot, and i used the word doomed to many times.

The other players on my fanon idea are Heir of Rage, Sylph of Mind, Maid of Blood, Mage of Life and the Prince of Void

[trulyElse]

I don't think Doom can be literally translated into death or a antithesis of Life, i see it being a antithesis of Light.

Isn't that occupied by Void?

[oceanHeart]

there should be a water aspect.

[Ekul]

Aspect of water=sea?

Also void isn't the absence of life, it's the absence of knowledge from what I gathered.

[Nar]

Also void isn't the absence of life, it's the absence of knowledge from what I gathered.

Or the concealment or destruction of, i think...

[trulyElse]

Also void isn't the absence of life, it's the absence of knowledge from what I gathered.

I meant that as a response to the point about Doom being proposed as antithetical to Light.

[Panda-s1]

Guys, how sure are we that the opposite of Void is Space? I mean the Void symbol is practically the spaces between the Space symbol, not to mention... I'm pretty sure somewhere this was mentioned.

That being said, Void/Light also makes a lot of sense, given that their aspects have played opposite roles in the story so far.