COMPLAININ 'BOUT HOMESTUCK ( tUMUt )

[colwag]

Maaaaaaybe? It's not like we can set things like that in stone right now. Is Dave's act really over? Has this character received enough development? Can anything NEW be done? Meh. Considering that Act 6 is supposed to be almost as long as Act 5 was, and Hussie has admitted in the past that things tend to go on even longer than when he first planned them, something is going to have to fill up all those pages and time. John, Rose, Dave, and Jade are still 'main characters' and they've got 3 years on a ship/meteor to plan their next moves. Surely they wouldn't waste away all that time on stupid shenanigans of course they will.

Plus.

It's already been said by others that Davesprite did very little at all (though they were all important things). What I was saying is that, maybe, Davesprite will become more involved?

Honestly, I don't think that's true anymore. The trolls have gotten a lot of focus to develop themselves, and now with Act 6 in full motion with only casual reminders that the others still exist, I don't really think they're the four "main" characters anymore. Just the ones that have been around the longest.

I feel like I could say Jane is a more "main" character then Jade is at this point (as awesome as Jade is and all. I love her so much)

[Conspicuous]

I'm not saying Davesprite will be THE hero. I'm just saying that he can still be just as important, even as a support. That's the AR's shtick as well, right?

Plus, I get what you're saying that Davesprite isn't out to prove he's anything. But that doesn't mean he can't be heroic. In fact, it's better if he's not trying to prove himself, isn't it? Since that's a rather unheroic trait. What I'm saying is that Davesprite just needs to do what he can. And continue doing that, as long as he's still alive and able (not dead, or half-dead in Sollux' case).

He did that already.
It was basically all he did throughout the game.

I mean, he was supposed to turning this timeline over to past dave, but he never really did that.
How is his arc supposed to go if he's seemingly already at ease with himself?

[The_Codfish]

Conspicuous:

How is his arc supposed to go if he's seemingly already at ease with himself?

He grows up, then becomes someone other than Dave? Someone different enough for John not to consider them the same person, at least. And since he supported the others throughout the game, then he'll continue to do so in the post-Scratch session, right? That, or maybe he'll retire from the Battleground, chill out with the consorts and pawns, and play Ghostbusters THE GAME for the rest of his natural life. Basically, what I'm saying is that Davesprite still has potential as long as he still lives.

[Conspicuous]

Conspicuous:

He grows up, then becomes someone other than Dave? Someone different enough for John not to consider them the same person, at least. And since he supported the others throughout the game, then he'll continue to do so in the post-Scratch session, right? That, or maybe he'll retire from the Battleground, chill out with the consorts and pawns, and play Ghostbusters THE GAME for the rest of his natural life. Basically, what I'm saying is that Davesprite still has potential as long as he still lives.

Of course he has potential.
But how much is he really going to change in those three years?
Dream Jade spent who knows how long apart from Alpha Jade, but when she came back she wasn't really all that different.

What would set Davesprite apart from her?

[The_Codfish]

I'm not saying he'll be a totally different person. It's like the concept of post- and pre-Scratch versions of characters. Still the same at heart, but different. Bro and Dirk are 'the same people', but they grew up in different environments, and once Dirk has developed up to the point Bro had, they'd be different people. Same thing with Dave and Davesprite. Davesprite needs to change his identity from simply being a copy of Dave to being a different character. Like the AR is supposed to be with to Dirk.

And Dream Jade was different from Alpha Jade, right?

[Conspicuous]

I'm not saying he'll be a totally different person. It's like the concept of post- and pre-Scratch versions of characters. Still the same at heart, but different. Bro and Dirk are 'the same people', but they grew up in different environments, and once Dirk has developed up to the point Bro had, they'd be different people. Same thing with Dave and Davesprite. Davesprite needs to change his identity from simply being a copy of Dave to being a different character. Like the AR is supposed to be with to Dirk.

Maybe, but even with AR everyone's still hammering on how he's basically fucking Dirk.

And Dream Jade was different from Alpha Jade, right?

There's some differences, but not nearly enough for them to be considered different persons.

Dream Jade just didn't have the same reality-grounding Alpha Jade had and was "truer" to Jade's self, not being burdened by reality and her responsibilities.

[Greyscale]

So yes, the God Tiering was pretty pointless in even more ways. Joy.

Built all that drama up for a great scene, and the only thing that happens is nothing.

Conflict is pointless now?

Really?

It is somehow not the lifeblood of every single story that existed all of a sudden?

[colwag]

Conflict is pointless now?

Really?

It is somehow not the lifeblood of every single story that existed all of a sudden?

That'd be a conflict of personalities.

And the way I see it it'd be more like Roxy accidently does something or has to do something and suddenly Rose's power is useless. There's not much of a conflict of interests here, just something that just sorta happens without much interpersonal drama attached to it.

Now if it it's like, Rose strangling Roxy not to do the voidy thing, then there's personality conflict. Which would be more fun, but I don't see that right now. Eh maybe later.

And it's still not something that she really NEEDS to be a God Tier to do anyways. She could eventually develop Seer powers normally like Terezi I guess instead of just instantly getting them and mucking up predestination again. Then again her Seer powers could never be used in a not "Seeing fortune" way so that'd be screwed either way. :/

[IocanePowder]

I was under the impression it does everything the flash can do, but without the flash plugin. All the actionscript, the input, everything, just outside of Flash.

[Greyscale]

And the way I see it it'd be more like Roxy accidently does something or has to do something and suddenly Rose's power is useless.

And you don't find that a perfect reflection of their previous interactions?

You honestly can't think of any opportunities and issues of trust that can arise from Roxy, a girl who has a problem being trusted, stopping Rose, a girl who has a problem trusting others, from using a power that would normally help her decide everything?

Personally I'm excited, it's like Hussie paved a way to bring everything back to the conflicts that were actually personal to the characters since Acts 1/2 even after he already killed the original Guardians, in a way that's potentially relevant to the plot.

[IocanePowder]

Andrew isn't going to provide with Flash Alternatives to any of the flashes or even links to youtube videos of them because it is his will as the author that Homestuck be either beamed directly into ones body via satellite or viewed on ones computer, preferably sitting down. I don't remember quite why but it makes sense given how convoluted the flashes and such get, sitting down at the computer (or having homestuck beamed into your brain) is really the only surefire way to get THE EXPERIENCE unhindered once you get into Alternia-Bound level shit.

Except THE EXPERIENCE would remain the same. As far as I understand with Google's HTML5 converter you get the same animation, the same actionscript, and the same input. The only thing that would change would be the reliance on Flash.

[Tenebrais]

That'd be a conflict of personalities.

And the way I see it it'd be more like Roxy accidently does something or has to do something and suddenly Rose's power is useless. There's not much of a conflict of interests here, just something that just sorta happens without much interpersonal drama attached to it.

Now if it it's like, Rose strangling Roxy not to do the voidy thing, then there's personality conflict. Which would be more fun, but I don't see that right now. Eh maybe later.

And it's still not something that she really NEEDS to be a God Tier to do anyways. She could eventually develop Seer powers normally like Terezi I guess instead of just instantly getting them and mucking up predestination again. Then again her Seer powers could never be used in a not "Seeing fortune" way so that'd be screwed either way. :/

You're looking at the possibility that Rose will lose the one thing standing between her and despair, caused by someone who is essentially her mother (with whom she has always had a rocky relationship) and assuming this won't cause conflict.

I think your main problem with the comic is not even trying to understand characters that aren't Vriska.

[colwag]

You're looking at the possibility that Rose will lose the one thing standing between her and despair, caused by someone who is essentially her mother (with whom she has always had a rocky relationship) and assuming this won't cause conflict.

I think your main problem with the comic is not even trying to understand characters that aren't Vriska.

If you think I try to understand Vriska you havne't heard me rant about her enough. :V

And yes, I do appreciate the potential Rose/Roxy conflict. I expect their interactions to be deep and interesting for both of their character arcs.

I just don't see Rose needing to have Super Seer powers as needed part of that conflict. It's like saying that Dave's eventual dealing with Dirk is not going to have the impact it could have because Prince of Heart doesn't really counter Dave's powers at all.

[Conspicuous]

I just don't see Rose needing to have Super Seer powers as needed part of that conflict. It's like saying that Dave's eventual dealing with Dirk is not going to have the impact it could have because Prince of Heart doesn't really counter Dave's powers at all.

They're entirely different people with entirely different narrative arcs.
Dave and Dirk have the whole insecurity thingy, so Rose and Roxy can explore their wholly different dynamic.

I really don't see why you would bring Dave and Dirk into this situation.

[colwag]

It's more like I don't see how both of them having powers that could come into conflict as being essential for it. I mean, they have plenty of issues without those things!

Also, I have no idea how Roxy's powers work compared to Rose's, so I don't even know if their powers going against each other is something that would be done willingly or maliciously or whatever. They have plenty of other things to have their own interpersonal dynamics over.

And I don't see how the Dirk/Dave comparison is irrelevant, even if the issues are much different. I don't see the part about Rose and her Mother's relationship that implies that it has to be done with powers or something.

[Conspicuous]

Well yeah, but the powers could be used to serve as a catalyst.

Rose and Roxy are more likely to keep dangling around each others issues, they really need something to set the conflict into motion so that we can watch it all fall apart.
Dave and Dirk don't need that, while Dave is likely to avoid Dirk, it would only take a single opportunity for them to be together to watch them falling into conflict.

[deathsbuddy]

Oh, you think Dave would avoid Dirk, then?

yayy, i'm doing it right

[Conspicuous]

Oh, you think Dave would avoid Dirk, then?

yayy, i'm doing it right

As much as he could.
He's may be a fairly straightforward kid but he'd rather face the demons outside than the ones inside.

He's pretty good at hiding.

[colwag]

Oh, you think Dave would avoid Dirk, then?

yayy, i'm doing it right

He'd much rather be the ambassador to your mom.

Although I am wondering what issues Roxy would have with Rose. She has SOME considering she considered the alcohol some sort of passive aggressive game, but. Rose has kinda been dead forever with her.

WE'LL SEE HERE OKAY.

[Greyscale]

It's more like I don't see how both of them having powers that could come into conflict as being essential for it. I mean, they have plenty of issues without those things!

1) The power thing is one way to make it relevant to the plot instead of just a sidebar of character development.
2) Since when do things need to be "essential"? Isn't something being interesting good enough? I like the idea that they are at odds in every single way, even down to the very core of their supernatural beings.

[Solaris]

Okay, Greyscale, Conspicuous, or deathsbuddy go associate* yourselves with the next thread if you want, if not I am going to once more sully my name** as the arbiter of this wretched chain of posts.

*I.e. make or start the next thread
**or i'll just do it in a while

[colwag]

1) The power thing is one way to make it relevant to the plot instead of just a sidebar of character development.
2) Since when do things need to be "essential"? Isn't something being interesting good enough? I like the idea that they are at odds in every single way, even down to the very core of their supernatural beings.

I want it to be "essential" because I want justification for pulling the interesting plot development carpet out from under the Green Sun mission by making them both God Tiers and as far as we can tell, developing absolutely nothing in the process. I want to see something happen that would be more "interesting" then Rose/Dave/Aradia/Davesprite dying or something, and that needed that God Tier to happen.

I want there to be a good reason for the ascension to happen, and I am not sure if simply being a device to draw Rose and Roxy into conflict 1000 pages afterwards is "good" enough for me.

...not that such a thing would be possible. In before Andrew gives me a well deserved chewing out for holding that scene up to an impossibly high standard and wanting to see some sort of metaphysical payout over these imaginary alternate timelines or something. Complaints about hypothetical story developments are silly.

[Greyscale]

Okay, Greyscale, Conspicuous, or deathsbuddy go associate* yourselves with the next thread if you want, if not I am going to once more sully my name** as the arbiter of this wretched chain of posts.

*I.e. make or start the next thread
**or i'll just do it in a while

Sure, I can do it.

Here we go. I assumed it was okay to quote the OP from this thread as OP to the other thread like people usually do but then it struck me mid-click that it might not be so if it's not I can change it.

[colwag]

Am I not allowed?

[Conspicuous]

Am I not allowed?

Nope, you're too colwaggy to be allowed to perform such a task of momentous proportions.