COMPLAININ 'BOUT HOMESTUCK ( tUMUt )

[nostalgebraist]

And it's especially odd that you deride thrillers for focusing on pacing, because when Homestuck focuses on dramatic elements, it's a thriller. It relies on suspense, tension, and uncertainty, keeping you on edge wondering "what's going to happen next?" (or thanks to Weird Time Shit, "what already happened?"). This is why I said that the pacing was always bad, but as the story went on, it changed into a form that needed the pacing to be better. Wacky comedy isn't hurt much by slow pacing since the story is just a framework for silly amusing things to happen; a story that tries to keep us in suspense is totally reliant on its pacing.

But it doesn't rely on suspense, tension, and uncertainty. Those are elements that it starts to have at a certain point in Act 5, on top of all the other qualities that it had before, the ones that had gotten me to read to that point in the first place. I definitely read faster around that point because I was worried about what might happen. But I didn't go through some thought process like, "ah, this is now in the 'thriller' genre, which means its main appeal is supposed to be suspense, so I will now judge it entirely on how well it achieves that goal and forget about everything else." It's not like all the other interesting qualities of the story went away!

[Huitzil]

It was suspense-driven well, well before Murderstuck in act 5 (or whatever you're thinking of) -- the mystery of who the hell these trolls are and what do they know and how all the weird time shit fits together is about suspense and uncertainty. That information was doled out slowly and sparingly, but not to the point where it felt like I was being jerked around.

[IDSeeker]

This thread: all of my laughts. All of them.

[PetPeeve]

Maybe that is a sign that you are not who it is for?

Didn't I just explain, in that exact message, WHY I thought it was tedious? Cripes!

I'm perfectly happy with well-formed criticism. I may not agree with it, and usually don't when it comes to Homestuck. But that's rarely what you see here anyway.

[techloveArtist]

This is not so much as a complaint but rather something that I wonder once in a while. In fact, it could as well turn into a 'complaint' about the Sales FAQ.

Look, I'm not looking to actually get Hussie to change his mind but I am in the middle of writing an essay for Hussie to think of the possibilities. If he says no after reading it, it's a no. I won't go around it.
I personally believe in a loose copyright and not just as a consumer-producer but as a producer as well. It is something that I myself would practice. I am tied up with the idea of a 'case by case' basis. For instance, if someone takes my art and creates a poster with it (without any changes to my art), I will mention that the thief is not associated with me. In fact, I would possibly would have taken the first step already and state any associations. Although, if I choose to sell a poster with that art, I would actually edit it in some way. However, if the art is in a collage or the art has been changed in any way, I'll let it go. If it is a derivative work, I personally would support it and if the person sells the derivative work, go ahead. I actually wouldn't ask for a fee either for using my characters and stuff. I also don't agree that I should be entitled to money unless it is in my hand. Now this is my idea on things and I'm perfectly fine with other people disagreeing with me. I would not ask of Hussie to go to that route since it is something he probably wouldn't be interested at all. However, I think 3D art commissions and mass produced works should be a thing within this fandom even if it means following a fee and whatnot.

However, everyone should put a page of their policies on copyright and put it within easy access. Sales FAQ is already a great step.
And just because someone sells X doesn't automatically means that someone else can't sell X. Depends on what X is.

[nostalgebraist]

Didn't I just explain, in that exact message, WHY I thought it was tedious? Cripes!

Not really?

I'm not trying to be snarky here, I just actually did not get much of a sense in your earlier post what your specific problem with this thread was. You said a lot of the posts on this forum were "noise," which seems to be like a colorful way of stating the fact that they do not interest you, not an explanation of that fact. And you also said that this specific thread was full of people who didn't realize that they weren't entitled to a response and that mostly no one cared about what they had to say. Which, again, seemed to me like a restatement of your lack of interest rather than an explanation of it; if you were interested in people's complaints to begin with, it wouldn't bother you that people write them as though they are supposed to interest you.

[Pbhead]

I missed my chance to rant about new ways Vriska's death sucks to Hussie himself.

I'm sorta dissapointed in myself for missing this opportunity. .

this so much.

[PetPeeve]

I'm not trying to be snarky here, I just actually did not get much of a sense in your earlier post what your specific problem with this thread was. You said a lot of the posts on this forum were "noise," which seems to be like a colorful way of stating the fact that they do not interest you, not an explanation of that fact.

I meant literal noise - as in people flapping their keyboard gums to no useful purpose.

And you also said that this specific thread was full of people who didn't realize that they weren't entitled to a response and that mostly no one cared about what they had to say. Which, again, seemed to me like a restatement of your lack of interest rather than an explanation of it; if you were interested in people's complaints to begin with, it wouldn't bother you that people write them as though they are supposed to interest you.

Something can not interest me and still be interesting. In fact, I acknowledged exactly that about a recent conversation here, and ended up starting a new thread because of what I wrote that disagreed with it. (the "what stuck you on homestuck" thread). That kind of thing is what I would love to see here, but instead it's usually crying about someone's pet character being dead (I think every one of my ignorelist people is because of some boring variation on that theme), or the huffy stuff about "wow, andrew doesn't agree with me about where his story should go, what a pilweef". And then there's the people who, when pointed out that they're being asses, wear that like a point of pride and keep right on doing it. Like "asshole" is a good character trait to have.

Anyway, I'm mostly grumbling about how completely and utterly useless the comic discussion thread has gotten. It veers wildly off topic, there's no stopping it, and there's people in there who seem to follow it obsessively 24 hours a day. CREEPY. It should probably be locked 24 hours after each update, to maybe keep the creeps from camping out there.

[Andrew]

I never actually entered this thread to address anyone's specific problems with the story. I was only talking about the serial/archival perception issue, because there still seems to be so many people who deny this is a real phenomenon, even as divorced from their opinions on HS. People with big problems always want me to address their stuff though. I say "I came to talk about X" and they say "Dude forget X, how about you answer for Y, because that's where the REAL problems are." Ok, whatever you say. Everyone has a million conflicting problems. Why would I get that involved in answering them? Yeah, I COULD write this huge dissertation on why Colwag's vision for Homestuck as some form of Vriska fanwank theater, in which she is glorified on every page from now until the end, is not actually the best direction for the story to go. My argument for that would be pretty air tight, but I don't have the time or the interest.

Rather than address people's isolated fetishistic gripes or structural issues, which vary way too widely, I CAN address issues which affect everyone's perception, and one of those is rate of reading and the influence on judgment that has. This isn't even really debatable in my view. Which is probably why I talk about it often, because I'm flabbergasted that people deny something so patently obvious. If you read a book in three days, that is a different experience from reading it one sentence at a time, every day, over the course of a few years. The difference in these experiences can be analyzed and evaluated. I don't get the psychology of anyone who disputes this principle. It's quite fucking insane. It's like I'm trying to have a decent conversation about some cutting edge genetic research with a guy who disputes the existence of evolution, and then tries to interest me on his brochures for intelligent design.

As if acknowledging this principle exists is somehow equivalent to totally ceding all ground on the merit of every single opinion you hold. Much safer just to deny it exists at all. There are some serious opinions at stake!!!

[colwag]

I dunno that Vriska fanwank theater idea doesn't sound too bad.

[Conspicuous]

I dunno that Vriska fanwank theater idea doesn't sound too bad.

Sounds like a good idea for a forum adventure.

[Andrew]

I dunno that Vriska fanwank theater idea doesn't sound too bad.

It will actually be the intermission to the squiddles intermission.

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

It will actually be the intermission to the squiddles intermission.

Is it going to turn out that the squiddles have a Vriska zodiac and that Vriska is the one who created the squiddle universe? Oh boy this is exciting.

[temporalPeregrine]

I don't know if Andrew is being wordy on purpose or his writing style has changed a lot lately for some reason. I hope I'm not the only one who's noticed this.

[Conspicuous]

Is it going to turn out that the squiddles have a Vriska zodiac and that Vriska is the one who created the squiddle universe? Oh boy this is exciting.

Vriska is the squiddle universe.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Sorry everyone

[Ace of Dark-Hearts]

Vriska is the squiddle universe.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Sorry everyone

She at least weighs as much as a universe. Does that count?

[liquidMountain]

It will actually be the intermission to the squiddles intermission.

The one where you mercilessly kill all of the characters you introduce?

But I think I would have a fit of laughter if there really was a Squiddles intermission.

[HeeCawRoo]

This thread became a lot funnier recently

EDIT:

Oh wait, I had a complaint.
I don't think Jade has been traumatized nearly as much as everyone else. I hope this changes soon.

[temporalPeregrine]

I don't think Jade has been traumatized nearly as much as everyone else. I hope this changes soon.

You think losing two guardians, killing his friend by accident, dreaming about horrorterrors, having a moon fall on her, getting killed by CD? of all people, having a fetch quest as her only objective in Sburb, losing every mary sueish tech she had, being stuck on a ship with his brother for three years while she's going through puberty, having her grandpa killed by some alien that's in love with her, and being the most boring kid ISN'T ENOUGH?

[The_Unoriginal]

I don't know if Andrew is being wordy on purpose or his writing style has changed a lot lately for some reason. I hope I'm not the only one who's noticed this.

Especially weird seeing as how he has stated his dislike for writing large chunks of text. Or is that just when it comes to things he has already shown us?

[PumpkinMan]

You think losing two guardians, killing his friend by accident, dreaming about horrorterrors, having a moon fall on her, getting killed by CD? of all people, having a fetch quest as her only objective in Sburb, losing every mary sueish tech she had, being stuck on a ship with his brother for three years while she's going through puberty, having her grandpa killed by some alien that's in love with her, and being the most boring kid ISN'T ENOUGH?

I wouldn't say she's the most boring kid, but yeah, she's had her fair share of bad stuff. Her and John just seem less prone to dwelling on the negative. At least not while they have a job to do. On the 3 year tourtrip, they'll probably have the time to deal with what happened.

[Huitzil]

Rather than address people's isolated fetishistic gripes or structural issues, which vary way too widely, I CAN address issues which affect everyone's perception, and one of those is rate of reading and the influence on judgment that has. This isn't even really debatable in my view. Which is probably why I talk about it often, because I'm flabbergasted that people deny something so patently obvious. If you read a book in three days, that is a different experience from reading it one sentence at a time, every day, over the course of a few years. The difference in these experiences can be analyzed and evaluated. I don't get the psychology of anyone who disputes this principle. It's quite fucking insane. It's like I'm trying to have a decent conversation about some cutting edge genetic research with a guy who disputes the existence of evolution, and then tries to interest me on his brochures for intelligent design.

As if acknowledging this principle exists is somehow equivalent to totally ceding all ground on the merit of every single opinion you hold. Much safer just to deny it exists at all. There are some serious opinions at stake!!!

No, it's like someone is trying to have a conversation with you about a thing, and you keep ignoring what they say in order to tell them that you know the REAL reason why they think the way they do and that makes their opinion invalid. The belief you know other people's thoughts and emotions better than they do is very common and seldom correct. It is not some unique insight that you possess.

What is the requisite amount of time that has to pass since you do a thing for it to be valid to criticize it?

[Sporkaganza]

I dunno that Vriska fanwank theater idea doesn't sound too bad.

That would be awesome... if it were fan fiction. I think you really ought to just write Vriska fanfic to get all your obnoxious character-worship out of your system so we don't have to put up with it in every post you make. Plus the fanfic might actually be pretty rad. Everyone wins!!!!!!!!

No, it's like someone is trying to have a conversation with you about a thing, and you keep ignoring what they say in order to tell them that you know the REAL reason why they think the way they do and that makes their opinion invalid. The belief you know other people's thoughts and emotions better than they do is very common and seldom correct. It is not some unique insight that you possess.

What is the requisite amount of time that has to pass since you do a thing for it to be valid to criticize it?

Jesus fucking christ, way to perfectly take yourself down with your own goddamned point. You have done nothing but hear everyone's reasonable arguments and then gone "No, it's the way I say it is because I'm right and you're wrong, so shut up."

Grow up.

[ShiningNight]

It is very difficult to change someone else's mind on something that they feel very strongly about, as we have no doubt seen here. But it seems that this arguing is becoming less constructive. You're both right in that it's frustrating and difficult to understand when someone just can't see things the way you do, but how about we all take a breather?

Can't we all just get along?

[Blueberry]

We've gotten about ten reports from this thread in the last 24 hours, so i'm locking it until I or another moderator have the time to evaluate the issue(s).

If and when the thread re-opens, Please remember that the rules of the forum apply, including the "RESPECT" rule. There's a handy link in my signature if you've forgotten the rules!!

Until then, I'm sorry to say you'll have to find another outlet for your complaints about things you don't like in a comic you read for free on the internet.