COMPLAININ 'BOUT HOMESTUCK ( tUMUt )

[nostalgebraist]

Bec had to be prototyped, though. Otherwise no Green Sun and horrible things happen.

We don't really know whether or not it's a good thing that the Green Sun exists, though.

I mean yeah it had to be created for self-consistency with established events and thus not creating it would have caused a doomed timeline, but that's true of almost all the important decisions in the comic, so you can use it to "justify" almost anything.

[acerPandoren]

Did Vriska technically "force" Bec to prototype himself, or merely enable him to do so?

[The_Codfish]

nostalgebraist: Skaia and the Horrorterrors wanted it to happen, and it seems to be the reason why they 'sanctioned' Lord English's existence. Also Jade basically described it as the center of all the universes, like in a solar system. Plus, the Genesis Frog from Jade's childhood has the same flashing eyes as Lord English. So it seems likely that the Genesis Frogs' existence is connected to Lord English's. I see no reason to doubt the importance of the Green Sun.

acer: She didn't really force him. Bec could have teleported the objects away. And, as we've seen with John before, the sprite seems to accept only certain objects for prototypings.

[acerPandoren]

acer: She didn't really force him. Bec could have teleported the objects away. And, as we've seen with John before, the sprite seems to accept only certain objects for prototypings.

My point exactly. One thing I'm wondering is how long it takes a sprite to "recover" before you can prototype it again. Could Bec still have prototyped himself after the doll being put in? Would the meteor have got too close if he hadn't prototyped right that second? I understand why it didn't happen though- plotline, drama and the fact Jack Noir would look damn silly as a dog with blue hair

[Thedude3445]

You guys complain too much. Seriously? More pacing complaints? I get pissed off every time I see one of those. Most of the people who make these are obviously newer readers, because they should remember Horrorstuck; everything from [S] Kanaya: Return to the Core to [S] Flip. Reading it archivally is fine, but as a serial reader, it was terrible. I had just become a serial reader myself, and the first bit (where Eridan kills everyone and Karkat freaks out about everything) was perfectly fine, but then the perspective started switching every single week, with no resolution to any plot line, only building up for the next time we were that character, which sometimes would be months. Everything was building to [S] Cascade, but it was such a slow progression that it felt completely tedious. I remember that reading the Dave-Terezi pesterlog leading up to 4/13/11 was so boring to me that I almost decided that I'd stop and read archivally for a few weeks' worth of updates. But when I re-read the section in July, I realized how it all worked. The whole "cryptically hint but don't answer any questions" thing was annoying to go through after it was done so many times, but it works very well archivally.
Nobody should complain about Act 6's progression. I mean we just got a ton of A1 exposition without having to wait for it to be built up for six months, and questions are quickly being answered. The only thing that will probably remain a mystery for a long time is the uu/UU session, and we have already seen images of their Skaia! There are no pacing issues.

Sorry I just needed to rant about people complaining about pacing issues.

[Solaris]

My point exactly. One thing I'm wondering is how long it takes a sprite to "recover" before you can prototype it again. Could Bec still have prototyped himself after the doll being put in? Would the meteor have got too close if he hadn't prototyped right that second? I understand why it didn't happen though- plotline, drama and the fact Jack Noir would look damn silly as a dog with blue hair

Bec was going to jump in no matter what and the only way he wouldn't have done it is if John somehow doubleprotoyped faster than a teleporting all powerful dog.
Vriska just stopped Jack from having blue hair and no arms and took credit for the whole thing because she's nuts like that.

[nostalgebraist]

Bec was going to jump in no matter what and the only way he wouldn't have done it is if John somehow doubleprotoyped faster than a teleporting all powerful dog.
Vriska just stopped Jack from having blue hair and no arms and took credit for the whole thing because she's nuts like that.

We don't know this, because we don't know why Bec prototyped himself. See this post and the discussion following it.

[Treehugger]

Well, we do know that Bec entered the sprite of his own volition. That he was going to do so was pre-established by temporal loops. The why doesn't really matter here.

I don't know if the prototyping was fungible in any way (short of splintering off a doomed timeline) - a successful prototyping of the blue doll would probably have prevented the prototyping of dead dream Jade and the ascension of Jade to God Tier. Be that as it may, Vriska helped things along - she knew what was going to happen and took action to make sure it actually happened. It might have happened the exact same way if she hadn't gotten involved, but since she got herself involved, she accepted responsibility.

For an analogy, imagine an executioner given the task to hang a convict - they didn't pronounce the death sentence and they wouldn't save the convict by refusing - another executioner would be given the job. But if they do it, it's still their hand which took that life.

[Legendary]

Plus John's plan was to cripple Jack further, which the prototyping might have done. Even if 3x prototypings are possible, having a threatening Jack (and ultimately a God Tier Jade with all of her parts) is pretty important to the timeline.

[Great Pikmin Fan]

And, as we've seen with John before, the sprite seems to accept only certain objects for prototypings.

But that was after the sprite was prototyped with a harlequin. I believe it was mentioned that trying to avoid tier-two prototyping could have been part of Harlesprite's personality.

In fact, it didn't allow itself to be prototyped with Nanna's ashes; that was an accident.

To try to stay on topic - even though it's more of a minor question than a complaint - I don't understand why WV's text didn't appear during that one dialoglog where Dave actually talked to him. Does the Gift of Gab really only work between kids and/or trolls (Or anyone who has Pesterchum/Trollian/is a sprite?), and for everyone else we can't read what they say?

[soultrainwreck]

Have I said "more clubs deuce" yet?

MORE CLUBS DEUCE

[soultrainwreck]

Also re: lack of strong male characters (not STRONG, dumbasses)—

I think Karkat is one of the most unique works of characterization I've ever run across in any kind of fiction.

[acerPandoren]

To try to stay on topic - even though it's more of a minor question than a complaint - I don't understand why WV's text didn't appear during that one dialoglog where Dave actually talked to him. Does the Gift of Gab really only work between kids and/or trolls (Or anyone who has Pesterchum/Trollian/is a sprite?), and for everyone else we can't read what they say?

I think it works with consorts too. I think a lot of the reason WV's speech wasn't included was to keep in character. Sure, we know he can type short sentences but we've never heard him speak and tbh I think in a way that might be said to be part of his appeal. I actually did call it that WV would speak via Dave, it seemed the most obvious thing.

[nostalgebraist]

My interpretation is that WV either didn't say anything or said something unintelligible, and Dave was sort of making a joke / making fun of himself by acting as though WV had agreed with him. I dunno if that makes any sense, but it was what I first thought when I read that page.

[Milcah]

*Raises hand too*

...mainly because she's not-Vriska, but still.

Well, to me, Aranea just shits upon what made Mindfang and Vriska badass and awesome characters. She freaking apologize to Terezi!


And also, LOL at how I started talking about having at least one decent male troll who is strong, confident and important to who is the lamest female troll.

Also re: lack of strong male characters (not STRONG, dumbasses)—

I think Karkat is one of the most unique works of characterization I've ever run across in any kind of fiction.

Yeah, I can see that Karkat is definitely unique male character, but he was a tool, then matured, then went back to become a tool again. Not only that, but he a control freak towards Terezi, yet wants to be with Nepeta. Oh, did I mention that he is the reason why their session got screwed in the first place and went to screw the kids session? He did a lot more damage than Vriska.


It makes me sad since he is my patron troll.

[nostalgebraist]

Not only that, but he a control freak towards Terezi, yet wants to be with Nepeta.

Huh? He definitely didn't want to be with Nepeta back when she was alive and had a crush on him (he says something to this effect in Alterniabound). He recently said that he'd want to see her if she appeared in a dreambubble, but that was part of making a more general point that he'd rather see any of his dead friends than a stranger.

[safetyboots]

ARANEA: Ok! I think I finally understand the art of storytelling now, thanks to you!
ARANEA: It turns out all you have to do is make series of short, mysterious statements without supplying context or any further ela8oration.

It turns out that I no longer have to write my complaints. Outstanding.

[Milcah]

Huh? He definitely didn't want to be with Nepeta back when she was alive and had a crush on him (he says something to this effect in Alterniabound). He recently said that he'd want to see her if she appeared in a dreambubble, but that was part of making a more general point that he'd rather see any of his dead friends than a stranger.

Still doesn't change the fact that he is a control freak towards Terezi and at the same time wants to be kismesis/matespirit with her to the point that they don't get along anymore. I was really hoping Dave will beat the living shit out of him for being annoying and incoherent, but I'm glad he piledrive him through a table accidentally. Haha.

[kaoticAntagonist]

Still doesn't change the fact that he is a control freak towards Terezi and at the same time wants to be kismesis/matespirit with her to the point that they don't get along anymore. I was really hoping Dave will beat the living shit out of him for being annoying and incoherent, but I'm glad he piledrive him through a table accidentally. Haha.

Okay see he is a control freak towards everything. That was the reason they let him be leader. They would have been a bunch of aimless jackasses otherwise and probably have killed each other before the endgame.

I do not see why it is a surprise he acts in a similar manner when considering relationships.

And the damage he did (I assume you are talking about the cancer) was necessary because if he didn't stop Kanaya from looking for that last frog skaia would have been destroyed and then the universe never would have been made anyway.

[CSJ]

The word 'scrum' is incorrectly utilized. A more correct term for the fisticuffs initiated by Jake is 'scrimmage'. Whilst scrimmage is a noun, it can also used as a verb, unlike scrum, whose verb form is 'scrummage' (which itself is a corruption of 'scrimmage' which is a corruption of 'skirmish'). Both scum and scrummage generally refer to a set piece used to restart play in Rugby, rather than a display of pugilism.

[Crispiness]

The word 'scrum' is incorrectly utilized. A more correct term for the fisticuffs initiated by Jake is 'scrimmage'. Whilst scrimmage is a noun, it can also used as a verb, unlike scrum, whose verb form is 'scrummage' (which itself is a corruption of 'scrimmage' which is a corruption of 'skirmish'). Both scum and scrummage generally refer to a set piece used to restart play in Rugby, rather than a display of pugilism.

That sure is a silly mistake for Jake to make.

[CSJ]

That sure is a silly mistake for Jake to make.

If several people were involved in the melee, then scrummage would be equally appropriate. Maybe Jake wasn't counting.

[elation2.0]

Still doesn't change the fact that he is a control freak towards Terezi and at the same time wants to be kismesis/matespirit with her to the point that they don't get along anymore. I was really hoping Dave will beat the living shit out of him for being annoying and incoherent, but I'm glad he piledrive him through a table accidentally. Haha.

No it seemed much more likely to me that Karkat was going absolutely fucking stir crazy because he was trapped on the meteor alone for a year. Like, it is partially his fault for not trying to befriend the humans, but his only company is apparently Gamzee who hides from everyone else like a cat who only likes one person. Terezi and Kanaya are hanging out with the humans more and Karkat is unsure how to go about socializing there, feeling all the more isolated. His best friend, Sollux, opted to stay behind rather than go with him, and his other friends are dead. He's just losing his mind from being in a situation he's unsure how to cope with! Not to mention how useless he probably feels due to not being leader anymore and being surrounded by the more powerful human players. The revelation that they often went God Tier and seemed to stay together in certain doomed timelines also seems to only worsen his mood and mindset, showing a lot of problems coalescing at once to make him act this way.

[Varkarrus]

I have one major complaint. It's pretty big.

Why don't any of the characters get remotely upset or traumatized over anything?
I mean c'mon. Earth -fucking ended-
John's dad -died-
he was upset for like, all of 5 seconds before Bec Noir killed him, and when he got back he got over his dad's death too.
and sure Rose flipped out over her mom's death, and once again, right after Bec killed her, she miraculously recovered over what should lead to -weeks of depression-
and Jade.
uggghh she -willingly killed her dog-
I just find that sooo unrealistic.

That's my one and only major complaint. (My other complaint is that the alpha kids are sorta bleh)

[The_Codfish]

They're not supposed to be realistic? They're caricatures. I mean, look at Fedorafreak. He lost his family and the only thing he cares about are his hats. Of course people would just say he could have gone crazy from the stress.

Then, another example would be Dad. Totally unrealistic guy. Or hey, Guy Fieri and ICP. Basically, I think the reason we never see any normal people is to emphasize how the characters we do see are set apart from the rest of their race.