Nightside Mafia 2 (GAME OVER: SERIAL KILLER WINS)

[Mirdini]

I'm fine with items going to any of:

Myself, beruru, Sotek, Solaris, Scoffles, maaaaybe Daunting I guess but he's a martyr-doc so kinda no since his job involves dying.

Pretty interested in the flavorcop. I definitely know how I'd use it.

Nice thing is with Tea alive I'm not #1 on the hitlist.

and if I am that means Tea gets to cop more suckas.

[OzTheWizard]

Hey! People are saying Oz is scummy. I don't think he is but I might be biased and, to be honest, I wasn't paying attention to him. I rarely do because I don't like the guy enough to re-read his posts. They're usually boring (and bloody long) anyway. But since people are saying he's scummy I decided to read all of his posts and make a case against him. So here's some gratuitous post listing... of my own posts:

98 I voted no lynch as my first vote, trying to make obvious that it was a joke.
121 Then I voted Mathgirl, I thought I saw something regarding her and Sotek and wanted to see their reaction to my vote. Mathgirl's was inconclusive, Sotek's was scummy.
195 Mirdini made a case against Tea, Tea's response was severly lacking and he got my vote.
233 Tea claimed, and I unvoted giving him the benefit of the doubt. Then I started making my case against Sotek.
253 I even made my case even clearer. Tea and Havakazoo said they liked my reasoning and then proceeded to keep ignoring it like everyone else. Which is scummy and makes me ok with a Havak lynch. Tea has that uncontested claim so he gets a pass for now.
312 Sotek's wagon was not growing, so I went after another one of my scum reads. With a vote.
340 Then Dauting claimed too, same as Tea, an uncounterclaimable yet plausible claim, so of course I unvoted. Scoffles made a good point against Mathgirl, so I put my vote there.
342 I also expressed that I was ok with beru's lynch. She supposedly has a claim (that's either too meta for me to get or maybe I'm a bit slow,) and Tea's check seems legit so I guess I was wrong.
345 Then Mirdini jumped on my throat "for jumping on any wagon he possibly can" which was a blatant misrepresentation of my vote patterns because here's my list of votes at the time:

• No lynch (RVS)
• Mathgirl (Bad reasoning I admit, but it helped me gain info. Not a wagon vote, I think I was the first to vote her.)
• Tea (He was being scummy, of course I voted him. 7th spot in case you were wondering. He claimed, I unvoted.)
• Sotek (I was making a case, it was a reasoned vote. First to vote him too, so no wagons here either.)
• Daunting (Another one of my scum reads. Voted on the 6th spot. He claimed, I unvoted.)
• Mathgirl (2nd spot, had to leave and my vote stayed here.)

Interestingly enough I completely failed to realize I had made this many votes (at the time I thought I had voted Mathgirl, Sotek and Daunting so I said I made three votes. I wasn't keeping track of my votes and even forgot I had voted Tea. My bad.) But none of them strike me as scummy or bandwagony (of course I'm biased here, you be the judge.)

I guess the mistake is forgivable if you take into account that Mirdini miscounted my votes too: 349 missing that I had voted Sotek. But more interesting is that he tries to lynch me on a "failed to lead any wagon" premise when I tried to lead two: the first one I didn't actually expect to take off, but for anyone actually reading my posts it should have been obvious I was making a case against Sotek. Yet in that same post he claims he's ok with lynching Sotek. Which leads me to believe Mirdini tried to get me lynched near the end of the day without even bothering to actually read my posts. My conclusion from this is that Mirdini is Scum and Sotek is Town.

Both Mirdini and Solaris pushed for my lynch at the end of the day based on false premises (the former) or no reasoning at all (the latter, though today he's adopted Mirdini's false accusations.) Which is odd because yesterday I thought Solaris was Town. Now I'm not so sure.

364 Red was also pushing for my lynch, he probably got ninja'd by Sotek defending me.
366 So he decided to move the lynch to the first (now confirmed to be town) target someone else (Solaris) brought up.
367 And Mirdini backpeddals and jumps in for the easy mislynch.

I got nothing against Red because those can be spinned as misguided town votes under the pressure of the day looking like it'll end in no lynch. On a related note, Mirdini is the only source that confirms his claim for now and I think Mirdini is Scum, so I'll hold my judgement on this one until tomorrow.

I'm not liking Solaris but his posts can be interpretd as him blindly following Mirdini in the wrong direction... though I'm not sure why Town Solaris would do that. (Open question: what do you people think of this?)

Mirdini has no excuse though, so he earns my vote. Lynch Mirdini... or we could lynch anacreon because those reads are scumtastic, I'm cool with that.

On that note, anacreon, could you elaborate on your reads regarding me and havak? I just analized my own posts and don't see what you could possibly mean about 312 and I'm finding your "conclusion" regarding havak rather odd.

[Mirdini]

So you want to lynch me because a. I pushed you as scum with (yes, admittedly) shaky reasons and b. I voted for hP at the end of the day yesterday.

Those are perfectly fair reasons for wanting me lynched.

Problem is you wouldn't be lynching scum. You said yourself that I miscounted your votes and that was a forgivable mistake. You do misquote me - I wasn't going after you for failing to lead any wagons, but rather because your jumps onto Mathgirl/Tea/Daunting rang bells for me. I wasn't paying enough attention to notice your constant individual aggro on Sotek throughout the day as more than noise - if you'll check my post today upon rereading through the night I noticed it and upgraded you to semi-town because of it. The post and case you made against me right now is reasoned as hell which makes me feel a lot better about you - either you're misguided town or scum putting in a hell of a lot of effort in to push a lynch that isn't going to happen, and the former seems far more likely.

As for the hurlingPagan lynch-jump, it was a blatant attempt to push through a lynch, yes. That's because with the way hP was playing he was just going to be a liability throughout the entire game (and could very well have been scum). I'd calculated that I'd prefer a mislynch on a player that's just going to muddy the water all game long over no lynch at all - and if he was actually scum (which seemed to be a possibility - he was acting really weird as you can see by rereading his posts) hey awesome.

As for anacreon he barely seems to be paying attention and his reads are underwhelming to say the least. Happy with my vote on him.

[absoluteCertainty]

holy shit oz people were only saying you were scummy yesterday.... you don't have to make that big of a post
it is only drawing attention to yourself
therefore since you have done that thing which would be stupid as hell as scum i have to think you are town

[Mirdini]

Only annoying thing about an anacreon lynch is that should he flip scum he's playing the kind of game where theoretical scumbuddies would gladly pay twice as much for express transport. So the fact that people lynch him/votes/vote orders on his lynch would be pretty much useless. Not that it really matters should he flip scum because getting a scum down is always good. And weird as heck/easy lynch scum can still have valuable roles.

[absoluteCertainty]

guys can we talk about havak and anacreon

can people make a four-person scumteam that has one of havak or anacreon in it
with raisins
and reeds

let's go come onnnnnnnnnnnnnn

hi can people do this please

[absoluteCertainty]

Only annoying thing about an anacreon lynch is that should he flip scum he's playing the kind of game where theoretical scumbuddies would gladly pay twice as much for express transport. So the fact that people lynch him/votes/vote orders on his lynch would be pretty much useless. Not that it really matters should he flip scum because getting a scum down is always good. And weird as heck/easy lynch scum can still have valuable roles.

:I

:IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

[Mirdini]

:I

:IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Applies as much to theoretical scum!beru as it does theoretical scum!dini (and theoretical scum!anyone who votes after Tea).

The first two are as far as I can tell not things though.

Callin' it in case I pop up dead and people try to use a scum!anacreon lynchtrain for reasoning later in the game.

Also guys

guys

I have two votes on me and beru is making faces at me

TOWNDINI STRIKES AGAIN

((I just find this meta-inevitability hilarious))

[Mirdini]

fake analysis, though, says I'm going to say mirdini and pala and uhh solaris? and then anacreon

the rest are glancing at like two votals and going "yeah okay YOU look bad!"

sotek too

yesssssssssssssssssssssss

[Mirdini]

guys can we talk about havak and anacreon

can people make a four-person scumteam that has one of havak or anacreon in it
with raisins
and reeds

let's go come onnnnnnnnnnnnnn

also sure

anacreon/palamedes with a chaser of two of crilly/youdont12know/Kieros (ranked in descending order of likelihood) with wildcard: Sotek.

anacreon's pretty obvious. Palamedes is off of what I posted in my readwall earlier - only 7 posts on D1, constantly shifting opinion on Oz, tunneling on Daunting throughout the second half of the day. Crilly/yd12k/Kieros are obvious lurker/non-contributing scumcandidates, crilly/yd12k have obviously been around/watching the thread but just not posting which is why they rank higher than might-have-just-forgotten-he's-in-this-game-Kieros.

Sotek I still don't trust completely. He's been busy forever and hasn't put down any reads I'm satisfied with past 'hey the machine says this', and Oz is feeling better to me now which makes me wonder if his (and my earlier) suspicions yesterday were well-founded.

[Mirdini]

Forgot havak - slots into the crilly/yd12k/Kieros slot at about the same height of scumminess as crilly/yd12k. I've got a light scumread on him (check earlier readwall) but it's weak enough that I'm forgetting to slot him into possible scumteams. He just hasn't really captured my scumhunting attention as much as the people I nakked about in my previous post.

[Havakazoo]

Hey is beru claiming something? Because I don't see what. Unless...but that's unlikely and I didn't think that happened, ever, and mafiascum wiki is fucking unavailable...and I did think anacreon was scummy anyway but now not so sure of your judgements on us because of me being town? errghgh you confuse me, I hate softclaims, and people that think people are softclaiming when actually maybe they're all wrong and you just think I'm scummy?

Don't understand why i'm scummy as several people have said that but nobody has actually pressured me at all, or even given proper reasons why they think I'm scum, so that I can actually respond to them and pressure some people hey I can do that anyway

Yo mirdini

I'd prefer a mislynch on a player that's just going to muddy the water all game long over no lynch at all - and if he was actually scum (which seemed to be a possibility - he was acting really weird as you can see by rereading his posts) hey awesome.

Lynching town, no matter how derpy, is bad, always. The only players that want town lynched are scum. I'm not defending hP at all but this just made Oz's points about you seeming scummy one hell of a lot worse. I'm pretty sure I remember you, as town, shouting at another player about this? May be recalled incorrectly though

And solaris, you seem to talk a hell of a lot about people other than your hypothetical scumteam and not really talk about me and Oz, who you suspect to be scum. So are you just going to pressure other people while trying to blend in by echoing the general consensus of town?

Blehh I would talk more and decide who to vote for but hey
it's late
I'm tired and need to do work
and probably won't be here until sunday as well
but OH WELL i will talk more then

[Havakazoo]

Oh hey I just got ninja'd by a triplepost! there's something new

[Mirdini]

or even given proper reasons why they think I'm scum, so that I can actually respond to them

14. Havakazoo - Aggro'd by ruru early, focused a lot on Daunting, said tea was scummy but avoided wagon to stick on Daunting. Buddied Oz & counteraggroed beruru (#257). Otherwise low content - didn't like beru or sotek. Light scum w/ provisions of beru/sotek being town.

Yo mirdini

Lynching town, no matter how derpy, is bad, always. The only players that want town lynched are scum. I'm not defending hP at all but this just made Oz's points about you seeming scummy one hell of a lot worse. I'm pretty sure I remember you, as town, shouting at another player about this? May be recalled incorrectly though

And then you trot out this old chestnut which ugh. Could either be you're town who's sticking to beliefs or scum trying to look townie by pointing out "but this is good town play guys". The fact that you pull the classic "ignore the meaning of the guy's sentence" has me leaning towards the latter though.

(and could very well have been scum). I'd calculated that I'd prefer a mislynch on a player that's just going to muddy the water all game long over no lynch at all - and if he was actually scum (which seemed to be a possibility - he was acting really weird as you can see by rereading his posts) hey awesome.

the last part of the sentence was phrased badly, yes. I would not prefer a guaranteed mislynch on a derpy player above no lynch (who the hell would), but I would prefer RISKING a (unspoken caveat: day one) mislynch on a derpy player if I think there's a reasonable chance they're scum to no lynch at all.

[Daunting]

(Heads up:
I see I've been referred to occasionally as a Jade role. Mine's a bit different from the DH Jade martyr--I target a player. IF that player would be targeted for a kill, I kill the attacker and die myself, leaving that player alive.)

Alright--I'm good with Mirdini's claim that Busdriver was "off" - it seems as good a reason as any to vig someone night 1, and I'll take it as truth that he wasn't playing "normally" for day 1 unless someone feels inclined to state otherwise. Unvote.

I've...
I've got no clue what's going through CuriousCat's mind right now, though if she could elaborate as to the reason behind her certainty that'd certainly be helpful.
Actually, I think I might know what CC is thinking. My reasoning behind Mathgirl's towniness is right after my vote.

Vote: OztheWizard because his overkill responses actually make him seem more suspicious--specifically...

He votes Mirdini because,
"So you want to lynch me because a. I pushed you as scum with (yes, admittedly) shaky reasons and b. I voted for hP at the end of the day yesterday." (-Mirdini)

This seems like a fairly accurate appraisal of Oz's reasoning-yet, Oz is just as guilty of this in my eyes. He was pro-lynching Tea (copclaim, not certain but likely town) and me (IMO town, though y'all are free to contest it), and he voted for Mathgirl at the end of the day. Mathgirl seems like a #$#@ choice for a town vig, making me think it was the mafia kill--against someone who was behaving townlike, was on a lot of peoples' town-reads, but wouldn't auto-draw protection.

He so thoroughly rebuts arguments against him--and yet uses practically identical arguments to push against Mirdini.

Skeeeeeeeeetch.

[Daunting]

(Heads up:
I see I've been referred to occasionally as a Jade role. Mine's a bit different from the DH Jade martyr--I target a player. IF that player would be targeted for a kill, I kill the attacker and die myself, leaving that player alive.)

Alright--I'm good with Mirdini's claim that Busdriver was "off" - it seems as good a reason as any to vig someone night 1, and I'll take it as truth that he wasn't playing "normally" for day 1 unless someone feels inclined to state otherwise. Unvote.

I've...
I've got no clue what's going through CuriousCat's mind right now, though if she could elaborate as to the reason behind her certainty that'd certainly be helpful.
Actually, I think I might know what CC is thinking. My reasoning behind Mathgirl's towniness is right after my vote.

Vote: OztheWizard because his overkill responses actually make him seem more suspicious--specifically...

He votes Mirdini because,
"So you want to lynch me because a. I pushed you as scum with (yes, admittedly) shaky reasons and b. I voted for hP at the end of the day yesterday." (-Mirdini)

This seems like a fairly accurate appraisal of Oz's reasoning-yet, Oz is just as guilty of this in my eyes. He was pro-lynching Tea (copclaim, not certain but likely town) and me (IMO town, though y'all are free to contest it), and he voted for Mathgirl at the end of the day. Mathgirl seems like a #$#@ choice for a town vig, making me think it was the mafia kill--against someone who was behaving townlike, was on a lot of peoples' town-reads, but wouldn't auto-draw protection.

He so thoroughly rebuts arguments against him--and yet uses practically identical arguments to push against Mirdini.

Skeeeeeeeeetch.

[Solaris]

I don't build scumteams.
I develop them naturally.
I think there are a group of people who are scummy, and I have outlined them in terms of liking them and not liking them.
Despite me not listing them out specifically as all co-aligned, there is an assumption that I believe they could possibly be on the same scumteam! Trying to link people in that way isn't fun, entertaining, or something I am good at so
nope

[Solaris]

Oh, bodyguard that makes much more sense.

[Unlicensed Busdriver]

Alright--I'm good with Mirdini's claim that Busdriver was "off" - it seems as good a reason as any to vig someone night 1, and I'll take it as truth that he wasn't playing "normally" for day 1 unless someone feels inclined to state otherwise.

Playing "normally" for day 1 is practically a guaranteed mislynch if scum puts in even the slightest effort and is therefore for chumps.

[Mirdini]

Oh, bodyguard that makes much more sense.

considering I've gotten a Jade role twice in otherwise straight games I don't see how it makes that much more sense

then again I guess SchmaltzII wasn't that straight

but yeah bodyguard is even better.

[imperviousScofflaw]

Oz
I just

I have no idea what possessed you to make that post
Like, none.

I can't decide whether its nervous scumplay or overexuberant townplay
In either case, Mirdini's reaction to it was interesting
I can't bring myself to call him scum!Dini or anything, I'm willing to believe the UB shot was genuine and I like his hunting so far, but that back and forth has me very intrigued, but I'm leaning more scum on Oz than Dini here
Bears is doing her bear thing and I'm feeling pretty decent on what I've seen out of her
Kazoo I don't like at all
lynch: Kazoo See?
That is exactly the same sort of thing that scum pushed on me in AllStars (oh you want to kill town, huh?) and not what Dini said at all. Feels like he's trying to piggyback on Oz's suspicions, honestly.
Solaris I don't know why he doesnt like me? But oh well I still think he's pretty cool. Even his stubborn nonsense in the above post feels pretty town on him.
Not buying scum!crayon but that may be a false derp positive, which has happened before
Hypothetical scumteam would be Kazoo/Oz/Pala/Claus and I could definitely see Sotek on there if hes bzzzzz or they dont have daychat just because I haven't really been satisfied with his contributions heretofore

'swhat I got for now


Oh and UB is feeling a bit better after that explanation

[Mirdini]

Hypothetical scumteam would be Kazoo/Oz/Pala/Claus and I could definitely see Sotek on there if hes bzzzzz or they dont have daychat just because I haven't really been satisfied with his contributions heretofore

I like this post n' agree with most of your analysis, even if I feel Oz is town - mainly because that post of his makes very little sense for scum!Oz to make (and it felt scumhunty). Also I see UB's rationale there but it honestly isn't true - plenty of scum have been lynched d1 and even if scum isn't lynched the dialogue actually threatening people with a lynch generates is extremely useful. Counter-argument is that it forces unnecessary claims but if people can't keep it in their pants they're not going to do so on d2 either.

I mean UB if we all felt the way you do we'd be back in late 2010 d1s where everyone just instantly votes no lynch.

Would like to hear yer opinion on the lurker brigade though - am I right in feeling there's one or two scum in there?

[Mirdini]

that last question is to scoffles

and well everyone else as well I guess

also lurker brigade nak more please

I really should've shot one of you instead

[imperviousScofflaw]

The way I'm feeling about most of the people that are talking, I think there's bound to be one or two in Claus/yd12k/Crilly/Kieros/Pala/isthereanyoneelsethatslurkedoffmyradarentirely?

Then again its hard to say when they are not, in fact, talking and I don't have a good scale to work with ;_;

[Crilly]

urgh blarg a blarg busy and about to go lazertagging so no time to talk (well I coult of posted yesterday but dini makes me never want to talk when we're in the same game because he ALWAYS WANTS TO LYNCH ME ARGAGARG)but I'd rather lynch Oz then Anac. just because of his over-reacting self wall and his really dumb vote on Mirdini (who to be fair I don't really think is being towndini but I never get a good read on him) so Le Vote: Oz