IDE/Theory Thread 23: The choicest of theories that money can buy

[Conspicuous]

I really, really, really, really don't think that Dirk and Roxy are in the future. For one, if they're playing Sburb, then how could they possibly be in the future when the future is going to be EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING IS DEAD? Also, it renders the significance of the date 11/11/11 pointless. Plus, I just think it's terrible and stupid, and one of the things that Hussie said once that has stuck in my mind (even if I can't remember the exact phrasing) is "Imagine something terrible and stupid. That's the opposite of what I'll do!"

11/11/3011
We don't know if Red Miles will hit in 2323(Did I get that right?) again.
And we know meteors can hit far beyond the start of the game, considering the Handmaid.

[cyberHeroine]

1) The reckoning is likely to be spread out more, with total annihilation coming after Roxy and Dirk enter the Medium
2) The date is really more important for Jane than it is for the others, and Roxy and Dirk didn't even mention the event
3) That's your opinion, and attempting to state it as fact to defend your theory is a circular argument

[Velmen]

So, based on the updates with, what I believe it is safe to assume are the Pre-Scratch Alternian players:

IDE/THEORY: The Pre-Scratch Alternian Players have personalities opposite from the Post-Scratch AlternianPlayers.

My main reasoning for this is based on what we've seen of Pre-Scratch Mindfang (negligible at this juncture in time) and Pre-S Condesce, and how opposite the Condesce seems to be from Feferi's personality (and possibly Mindfang to Vriska's personality).

Taking this reasoning, it may be reasonable to suggest that both sets of 'Sgrub' players have personalities opposite their respective person (Example: Feferi & Pre-S Condesce), and the same principle can apply towards the Ancestors inherent to A1 & A2.

Of course, this IDE is too early to have any real basis to go on yet, aside from the one noted earlier.

[cyberHeroine]

Not a bad theory, but they can't be entirely different. Vriska is, after all, a huge nerd, and I find it hard to believe that the Pre-Scratch Condesce takes everything seriously...
As far as we've seen, only one aspect of either of them is definitively changed, and for Mindfang even that isn't certain.

[Plasma Captain]

A bit unlikely, considering that the Karkat who shows up in Dreambubble has the same hairstyle as the Karkat we know. The hair is pretty much the only way we can differentiate the characters from their (kid) Guardians, you know?

Okay, so this was a few pages ago, but in response to this I must remind you that the post-Scratch ancestors had identical hairstyles to the Trolls. Also, the Handmaid had Aradia's hairstyle when she took her hairpins out, so it's likely that the pre-Scratch Trolls that we're seeing now have the same "natural" hairstyles, but have just styled them differently. Anyway, it's not a certain indicator that all of them will look different, especially the Sufferer, who is kind of the odd one out anyway.

In any case, it was just a theory.

[Anarel]

My two cents on the whole "Not-Vriska" and "Not-Feferi" (as I call them) :

I think there are two posibilities:

1) Either we are seeing the young versions of the Trolls' Ancestors (Mindfang, Condescence, etc). I'm not sure about this.

or

2) We are seeing alternate universe/dream bubble versions of the Trolls. Which would make sense because it will connect the interdimensions between window panes and the dream bubble dimension, of which we have seen glimpses already (dead God-Tier Vriska+dead John, dead? God-tier Karkat+Nepeta, etc).

[The Mather1]

So, based on the updates with, what I believe it is safe to assume are the Pre-Scratch Alternian players:

IDE/THEORY: The Pre-Scratch Alternian Players have personalities opposite from the Post-Scratch AlternianPlayers.

Hippie Dualscar, scholar Highblood, juggernaut Darkleer and bad influence Dolorosa. Sounds like fun.

[kaoticAntagonist]

Hippie Dualscar, scholar Highblood, juggernaut Darkleer and bad influence Dolorosa. Sounds like fun.

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[The Mather1]

Don't think physical traits change, so Darkleer should still be STRONG, except with an aggressive attitude, superiority issues and no concern for his friends' health.

[diabolicalPenguin]

This is a really cool idea.

Of course, you have to remember that the trolls HAD to scratch due to their existence being an unstable time loop; if they don't scratch they aren't created. Chances are a lot of things completely out of their control happened to lead up to some scratching, like Karkat's cancer causing Jack to get the ring before the kids even have a chance to interact with him.

Yeah, I know they were forced to scratch. I was thinking more along the lines of her suggesting going to Echinda, and arguing that it was the right thing to do. Just ensuring that that was the direction they took. I should have been clearer.

[Velmen]

Not a bad theory, but they can't be entirely different. Vriska is, after all, a huge nerd, and I find it hard to believe that the Pre-Scratch Condesce takes everything seriously...
As far as we've seen, only one aspect of either of them is definitively changed, and for Mindfang even that isn't certain.

Yeah, some compatriots brought this up while I asked them to opine on my theory, and its also entirely possible, and more probable than my theory, that they each have some vital or substantial thing about them changed, akin to the Scratched session we've been viewing (such as how they're raised, how inherently different they are, etc).

[LMLYP]

I really, really, really, really don't think that Dirk and Roxy are in the future. For one, if they're playing Sburb, then how could they possibly be in the future when the future is going to be EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING IS DEAD? Also, it renders the significance of the date 11/11/11 pointless. Plus, I just think it's terrible and stupid, and one of the things that Hussie said once that has stuck in my mind (even if I can't remember the exact phrasing) is "Imagine something terrible and stupid. That's the opposite of what I'll do!"

when Dirk describes things as "antediluvian" he means it literally
because.....
Dirk And Roxy Live In A Dystopian Waterworld Openly Ruled By The Condesce.

• "Oceans rise. Cities fall." is what happens on 11/11/11
• Dirk's apartment is infested with seagulls
• the starving exiles in the laboratory came on the first wave of meteors
• the environment outside Roxy's house is "unsuitable for a burial"
• the Derse dreamers have been throwing around terms like "wiggling day" and "pale friend" which the Prospit dreamers don't get
• they have access to Crockercorp appearification tech while the heiress to the company only gets a shitty gristwidget
• Dirk, a "sickwicked autodidact on ancient civilizations", says the SBAHJ movies (plural!) "will have profound historical significance" and asks Roxy if she's "ever peeked in a history book"
• Jane doesn't believe that Rose and Dave are dead because from her perspective they haven't died yet:
  

  TT: It just registers for me as a reaction which isn’t completely unreasonable from her perspective.
  TT: She is inundated with media coverage of those whom we’ve claimed as our parental figures.
  TT: That they are not presently alive nor ever played that role for us as she understands it is just an extension of a much more elaborate and far reaching explanation, which is much harder for anyone to digest in its entirety.

• Roxy tiptoes around the subject:
  

  TG: you forget we live in very different time zones
  TG: its a lot later here
  GG: You’re three hours ahead of me!
  TG: youd would be amazed
  TG: how much can happen
  TG: in 3 hours

• UU says it explicitly:
  

  GG: I’m really hoping Lalonde won’t flake out on me this time. Have you heard from her?
  UU: not the today that is local to yoU.

• while the narrator jokes about it:
  

  You are now Roxy. What were you up to again? You were floating somewhere in the nonlinear timestew of paradox space, and we were hoping to get a handle on the exact chronology of your situation.

  You are now Dirk. What the hell was going on here again? That’s right. You were lodged in the bulbous cleft of paradox space’s huge foam ass, and we were hoping to trouble you for a bit of context. Something to set our watches to, if you’d be so kind.

shamelessly crossposted from tumblr

most of these things could have mundane explanations, but i think the mountain of circumstantial evidence has grown tall enough for you to climb atop it and take a seat in the noob throne. sorry i really wanted to use that phrase

EDIT OH I FORGOT A THING: through dave's bedroom window you can see a neighbouring building. through dirk's bedroom window there's nothing but sky. and none of the windows in roxy's bedroom are real.

e2 dirk and roxy's houses have only ever been depicted from a low angle where we can't see the ground

[Grim Fandango]

I have a feeling that we'll be seeing every pre-Scratch troll in one way or another except for the Sufferer.

My theory is that all of the other pre-scratch trolls died off one-by-one during their session, leaving the Sufferer alone to Scratch the session. I say we won't be seeing him because while all the other trolls "survived" through dream bubbles and void wandering shenanigans, the Sufferer doesn't exist at this point. This could be the reason why the post-scratch Sufferer remembers the pre-scratch Alternia. He stopped existing in one session but got to keep those memories in exchange. That would be the ultimate sadstuck if this turns out to be true

This doesn't rule out any flashbacks of him or seeing him in some kind of pre-scratch Hivebent scenario but I just don't think we'll be seeing physically during the Alpha session.

[mysteriousOutsider]

That is a very nice collection of evidence right there, LMLYP.

[Crispiness]

Also Jane refers to the concept of homosexuality as something that still exists; Dirk says it's outdated.

Can that count as evidence.

[Conspicuous]

It's outdated because everyone's DEAD.

[LMLYP]

Also Jane refers to the concept of homosexuality as something that still exists; Dirk says it's outdated.

Can that count as evidence.

welll roxy seems to think it still exists, too; she asks UU if aliens can be "space gay"

thats why i pounced on dirk's usage of the word "antediluvian" instead

[simon.clarkstone]

EDIT OH I FORGOT A THING: through dave's bedroom window you can see a neighbouring building. through dirk's bedroom window there's nothing but sky. and none of the windows in roxy's bedroom are real.

e2 dirk and roxy's houses have only ever been depicted from a low angle where we can't see the ground

In the beginning of act 6 we only see Roxy's house from a low angle, but we can see that it is surrounded by conifers and on top of some yellowish ground. Dunno what that implies though.

[The_Unoriginal]

1: UU has killed 11 trolls so far.
2: She is about to play a deadly game with the last one.
3: Instead of creating a universe, UU will side with Derse and oppose any such matters.
4: The Black King will be killed, but her session will continue for some reason.

[caliginousChemical]

So, based on the updates with, what I believe it is safe to assume are the Pre-Scratch Alternian players:

IDE/THEORY: The Pre-Scratch Alternian Players have personalities opposite from the Post-Scratch AlternianPlayers.

My main reasoning for this is based on what we've seen of Pre-Scratch Mindfang (negligible at this juncture in time) and Pre-S Condesce, and how opposite the Condesce seems to be from Feferi's personality (and possibly Mindfang to Vriska's personality).

Taking this reasoning, it may be reasonable to suggest that both sets of 'Sgrub' players have personalities opposite their respective person (Example: Feferi & Pre-S Condesce), and the same principle can apply towards the Ancestors inherent to A1 & A2.

Of course, this IDE is too early to have any real basis to go on yet, aside from the one noted earlier.

This seems reasonable to me. Look at the kids, after all. Jane is cynical where John is naive, and tends to approach things with reason, as opposed to John's whimsy. Dirk has the confidence that Dave attempts to convey. Roxy... that one speaks for itself. Jake is the only one who gives me cause to stumble, really, but it seems sound otherwise.

Also I thought UU was going to take pre-Scratch Sufferer's place, after that one post on Hussie's Tumblr where he said that the lime bloods would land roughly in Karkat's spot on the hemospectrum.

[caliginousChemical]

So, based on the updates with, what I believe it is safe to assume are the Pre-Scratch Alternian players:

IDE/THEORY: The Pre-Scratch Alternian Players have personalities opposite from the Post-Scratch AlternianPlayers.

My main reasoning for this is based on what we've seen of Pre-Scratch Mindfang (negligible at this juncture in time) and Pre-S Condesce, and how opposite the Condesce seems to be from Feferi's personality (and possibly Mindfang to Vriska's personality).

Taking this reasoning, it may be reasonable to suggest that both sets of 'Sgrub' players have personalities opposite their respective person (Example: Feferi & Pre-S Condesce), and the same principle can apply towards the Ancestors inherent to A1 & A2.

Of course, this IDE is too early to have any real basis to go on yet, aside from the one noted earlier.

This seems reasonable to me. Look at the kids, after all. Jane is cynical where John is naive, and tends to approach things with reason, as opposed to John's whimsy. Dirk has the confidence that Dave attempts to convey. Roxy... that one speaks for itself. Jake is the only one who gives me cause to stumble, really, but it seems sound otherwise.

Also I thought UU was going to take pre-Scratch Sufferer's place, after that one post on Hussie's Tumblr where he said that the lime bloods would land roughly in Karkat's spot on the hemospectrum.

[The Mather1]

IDE: The reason there are seagulls in Dirk's bedroom is because when the SBAHJ movies moives hit the market, Dave had the building moved to/reconstructed in LA.

[Legendary]

Nope.jpg. The char select screen for Jane/Jake shows that Dirk lives in Texas, where Dave did.


EDIT: When Jane and Dirk have their inevitable troll meetings, they will meet kid versions of either the Disciple/the Dolorosa (Jane) and the Sufferer/the Handmaid (Dirk), as both Jake and Roxy have met trolls whose colors are similar to their respective beta players (John and Rose).

[ArmsAreLoud]

Could be Corpus Christi. Plenty of seagulls there. /devilsadvocate

[gimmethegepgun]

That same map shows that the US CLEARLY is not flooded over as that theory would suggest.


Unless the question marks mean that they aren't there NOW, but in THE FUTURE?
?!
?!?!?!