I've always thought this one was funny
I've always thought this one was funny
There are numerous cases in homestuck which could be described as allegorical of the threat of global warming, pollution, and industry:
The batterwitch's control of the alpha earth, as well as the flooded planet decries the threat of unregulated industry polluting the earth, and resulting in a global flood.
Jade's melting of LOFAF symbolizes that even perfectly innocent people, performing the basic functions needed to progress through life can be contributors to the destruction of the polar ice caps.
The oil on LOWAS is commentary on the water pollution caused by powerful multinational corporations
The dead fish on LOLAR represent the growth of human society culling the seas of life through over-fishing and pollution.
Dave's action at LOHACSE depict politicians and the populace (the crocodiles) being more concerned with capitalism than the damage being caused to the environment (lava)
also, if you look at a picture of the black queen and unfocus your eyes, she looks kind of like a black Sarah Palin, and if you do the same with WQ, she looks like nancy pelosi
Speaking of planets:
I always thought it was neat how they were in some way a reflection of the character that owns them. I've seen a lot of people go, "Dave is cool but his planet is hot!", "Rose is dark but her planet is light!", and I think that maybe they're missing the point a little, in that the planets aren't really a reversal of the characters' traits at all. Dave for example isn't actually all that cool, by which I mean, he can be pretty hotheaded and impatient when he's pushed. It's a reflection of the characters' deeper selves.
Like, Rose's LOLAR. Land of Light and Rain. It's not that "dark is the opposite of light and Rose likes the dark so her land is light"; Rose does like light. The first thing she says about the planet is that she likes it. She likes how it looks and would probably enjoy exploring it. So yeah, there's a lot of light, and rainbow colors, and rainbow color light falling in liquid form. It fits Rose on the level of her that appreciates wizards and kittens and ponies and perhaps most of all the mysticism that is the root of a lot of her interests, especially the "dark" ones". But visual appeal to an uncommon side of Rose is not the only way that land reflects her, nor is it the most important.
The oceans those appealing rainbows form are dead, without any sea life in them; similarly the islands are almost entirely deserts of chalk, with no plant life capable of growing in them. It is a lifeless planet, full of potential for growth, but currently dead, a fact easily forgotten in the face of the cheerful colors which define it. It might be too much to say that Rose is also dead inside, but it's not difficult to see the similarity in the fact that Rose frequently hides her true thoughts and emotions from others in order to present a picture of someone whose feelings are locked down and not given the space it needs to grow and prosper.
The condition of the land also shifts to reflect Rose. When Rose gains her Thorns and begins to use magic to formulate a suicide plan in a self-destructive manner, what does she do in the process? While she destroys herself with her increasing inclination for grimdarkness (culminating in a suicide run against an omnipotent being, and then a suicide mission to the Green Sun), she uses magic to destroy bits and pieces of her land, taking apart huge structures in fantastic explosions.
Then there's the land's quest and Rose's hero's destiny. She is supposed to play the rain to return life to the ocean, and grow lilacs in the dead land. Taking the whole dead land = emotions deal, it's clear that in a sense Rose accomplishing her quest would be symbolic in some way to her growing as a person emotionally. Let's take it a step further though: lilacs are a pretty specific flower, and depending on their color, they could mean one of two things: if white, they symbolize youthful innocence, something Rose kind of needs. If purple, they symbolize the first emotions of love. Either color would be suitable for Rose and her need to be more open emotionally.
I guess symbolism like that can be found in the others' lands but Rose's planet is the one that interests me the most and seems the most coherent in my mind.
Certainly the Lands are tailored to appeal to their players (or the players are tailored to like their Land!). Rose, Dave and Jade all commented on how much they liked their land (Jade thinking LoFaF was fun, Dave thinking LoHaC was badass, Rose liking how pretty her land was, and while John didn't specifically say he liked it he did describe it as dark and spooky, which appeals to his ghost-loving side). We also see this in the trolls' lands; LoMaT is perfect for Vriska for obvious reasons, LoWaA gave Eridan a pointless vendetta to pursue. Tavros got a land containing nothing that could hurt him but a lot he could succeed at. Feferi got a land as lively and bubbly as she is, from what we could see.
Karkat and LoPaH are perhaps the most obvious exception; he's the only one that actually objected to his land, thinking the candy-red blood was there to mock him. But I'm not sure it was really possible for Karkat to like things at that point in his development. Not to mention, as part of Sburb's growth narrative, Karkat should have embraced who he is and take pride in his identity, which would naturally have made him proud of his Land. He just failed that.
here. He did it when he was trying to stop the Jadebot from getting to the Frog Temple in an act 3 flash.
Last edited by ponce; 03-09-2012 at 01:13 PM.
What page was that, ponce? I actually recall that now, but I can't find it.
Folders and sigquotes below. Warning: This may cause brain damage. http://i.imgur.com/LltzU.pnghttp://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...gendercorn.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/b1RdM.gif
I think there's something symbolically significant in the fact that the Condesce, despite being the highest possible bloodcolor, has an affinity for mutant candy cane red, AND controls a corporation that is visually represented through the same color, the same color Karkat's blood is.
"What? Funning? I never fun! I do not fun, and have no history of funning, and even if I were inclined to funning, I would not dream of funning with you."
Was he hovering? I thought he was just sitting in front of the entrance.
Homestuck is clearly a guidebook to Sburb. We just don't know it yet.
I find the sword to be a particularly compelling symbol in Homestuck, especially as it relates to the character development of both Dave and Davesprite.
There are of course the obvious connections between Dave's belief that he is not a hero and the broken sword. It is interesting to see the sword develops as a symbol throughout the plot of Homestuck, especially its role in differentiating Dave and Davesprite.
If we consider the wielding of the broken sword to be indicative of the fact that Dave is not a "hero" in the traditional sense, then to wield a whole sword is obviously to be a true hero. This is further reinforced by the fact that Dave's personal quest involves the reforging of the Caledfwlch. Dave's personal quest is to reforge the sword, and thus symbolically acknowledge that to himself that he is a hero. But this interpretation of the reforged sword as Dave's ascension to heroism and an acknowledgement of his own merits is complicated by the fact that it is not Dave, but
Davesprite, that reforges the sword.
In considering the significance of the sword as it pertains to Davesprite, we inevitably focus on the Choice. The Choice presented to Davesprite by Hephaestus is apparently between fixing the sword and fixing something "that doesn't matter". It is commonly assumed that what is implied is that Hephaestus offered to "fix" Davesprite. Thus, Davesprite has the choice to either fix the sword or to fix himself. If to choose the sword is ascend to the rank of hero, then what exactly does choosing to fix himself entail?
Looking back upon the origins of Davesprite, one could almost say that his existence is an anomaly. His entire existence is based off a doomed timeline that is at the same necessary for the existence of the alpha timeline and he only avoids the fate of other doomed timeselves by prototyping himself. And even then, his life hangs by a thread and his usefulness as a sprite is put into question, as he not only has his role as a guide usurped by Terezi but also fails to save his Bro from death at the hands of Jack. Davesprite, if he chose to fix himself, would essentially acknowledge the futility of his actions. To choose to fix himself would be to admit that he had made a mistake. The Choice presented by Hephaestus is symbolically a choice between acknowledging that the deeds Davesprite performed were worthy of a hero or not. The Choice is a self-evaluation of Davesprite's worth and I propose that choosing the alternative to fixing the sword would result in his death.
So Davesprite elects to reforge the sword and affirm to himself that he is worthy of being called a hero. And then soon after he elects to put down the sword and send it to the alpha Dave. Given that I have just spent the last paragraph explaining that Davesprite was validating himself as a hero, this result seems almost contradictory. But it may be that because Davesprite has validated himself as a hero that he is so willing to give up the blade. He no longer has anything to prove, no longer has anything to strive for, and so passes the blade down to the alpha Dave who must also eventually come to terms with the nature of his heroism.
The sword is transported by Jadesprite to Derse, where Dave, as before with the Caledfwlch, attempts to pull the it out of the rock. And again, he fails, and the sword breaks. When he ascends to become the Knight of Time, he wields the broken Deringer, not the whole. These events imply that Dave has still not come to acknowledge his own self and merits and still does not think of himself as a hero. Though he has ascended to the god tiers, he is Hero of Time only in name and not spirit.
As the plot further develops, will Dave eventually acknowledge himself as a hero? Will he too go before Hephaestus and be offered the same choice that Davesprite was offered, or will it be something different? Will my analysis of Davesprite's character prove to be close to the truth or complete bullshit?
You can find a lot of symbolism in the weapons that the other characters besides Dave use, can't you?
You suddenly realize everything you've done mi- THIS IS STUPID
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
There's more for Dave because we have a hint of what his personal quest is. Not so much for everybody else.
John is the Heir: a receiver. He (very unlike the others) receives help at every step of his quest: a highly active sprite, versus useless or much subtler sprites; a helpful and informative exile, versus useless or absent exiles; two extremely helpful trolls (Terezi got him the rocketpack and maps, plus the aid of several other characters), versus (except Terezi) trolls that must be cajoled into helping, if they can be. John even recieves the help of Dr Meowgon Spengler and all of his group's guardians in what is arguably the most pivotal moment of his quest: ectobiology and subsequent ectobiolobabysitting.
John's first "received" weapon is Fear No Anvil, from Dave, a Derse dreamer. Fear No Anvil is a few things. First, it is the most powerful weapon Alternate Future Dave has seen, well beyond Caledfwlch or Caledscratch; it is the weapon of a Denizen. Second, it is a tool. Hephaestus is a blacksmith; Fear No Anvil is the hammer with which he performs his role and probably the hammer that turns the broken Caledfwlch into the whole Royal Deringer. Third, it is representative of Dave's power: it can freeze enemies in time. Fear No Anvil is representative of (1) John's great power, (2) John's responsibilities as Leader, and (3) the assistance John has received from his friends (especially Dave). John loses Fear No Anvil when he is killed on his quest bed. This is followed by a number of periods of goofing around, doing personal things and generally not being the Leader, with a single exception that will come back in a bit.
John's next received weapon is the Warhammer of Zillyhoo, a colorful and toylike hammer, reminiscent of an inflatable toy given to a toddler. He gets it most directly from Jade (particularly, Jade before the death of her dreamself), and less directly from Jake and either his future self or Gamzee. In any event, all are Prospit dreamers. Zillyhoo represents John's whimsy and childishness. Most of all, Zillyhoo is John the Friend, the face John wears when he doesn't need to be the Leader (or Derpface John).
Next up we have the Needlekind Specibus, Rose's final gift. Rose is, of course, a Dersite. Needles are, again, a tool. However, they are a softer tool. For Rose, they are a tool used in a hobby craft, not a job, as with Hephaestus's hammer. In further contrast, knitting needles cannot be used to make weapons of war, as a blacksmith's hammer can. Receiving the needlekind is an important part of John's mission, but it is not the most difficult and does not really involve John's powers, the way every other portion of his mission does. Here we begin to see a blend of roles: a tool, necessary for the mission, but not a tool that can only be used for the mission.
Almost immediately afterward, Vriska, a Prospitan, gives John her Fluorite Octet. The Octet are certainly not a tool of work, but they are not exactly a toy either. The dice are a tool of play, used by people ranging from mature children up into adulthood. Vriska, note, is the precipitator of that moment of seriousness mentioned above: she gets John back on task with the retrieval of the Tumor. However, she tells him to do it in the language of games. She tells him to "8e Cre8ive". Likewise, the receipt of her dice is followed by John's long and windy journey. The journey is fun, but also important, since it is presumably during this journey that John retrieves the items he needs from his corpse, and he winds up on LOHAC, where he can scout for his coming battle at Beat Mesa. The Fluorite Octet is combined with the Warhammer of Zillyhoo on this journey, creating the Popamatic Vrilly-Hoo Hammer and completing what I will call the Gift of Prospit. With the Popamatic, John has an expression of everything good from the childhood he is leaving behind: his creativity, his great potential (from the dice, which deal variable damage), and his inherent friendliness.
John's last gift, the Needles of Echidna (another Denizen level weapon), come from Jade, but it is not the same Jade that gave him the Warhammer of Zillyhoo. This Jade dreams not on Prospit, but in the Furthest Ring. In many ways, she has moved closer to Dersite "alignment." She is far more serious than the Jade that gave him Zillyhoo, far more focused on her plan to save the session and players. In many ways, she is now like Rose. The Needles this new Jade gives to him allow John to fulfill his mission, but again they are not the element that requires John particularly. These Needles, coming from a Jade who has become close to Derse, are a Dersite gift: they are a gift of responsibility, leadership, and adulthood.
I predict that during the Intermission that just began, John will combine the Needles of Echidna and Fear No Anvil, completing the Gift of Derse. With this weapon, John will have an expression of all the good he will find in the adulthood he is fast approaching: responsibility, great personal power, and the ability to direct the great powers of his friends and allies. He will return to the dual hammer style of [s] Enter and [s] Act 4, wielding the Gifts of Prospit and Derse together, uniting his adult and child sides and playing the role of Friend and Leader as one.
Last edited by unbeliever536; 03-12-2012 at 10:50 PM. Reason: slightly more on the Needles
Sometimes I'm on GiantITP. If you like GAMES you should drop by some time!
Proud winner of the English language, posesser of a most purple prose.
Archive of stuff:
I HAD SOME COOL SIGQUOTES BUT THEY WERE TOO BIG. OH WELL
The title is representative of the syndrome it produces in the readers, which glues them to the story and their computers and causes them to never want to leave their homes.
Here's my take on Dave and the crows:
Crows are a... controversial sort of bird. In my experience, people at large consider them ominous and undesirable. On the other hand, they're rather popular among certain fringe groups and subcultures.
Analyzing Dave, he'd probably come off as pretty uncool to the world at large. He comes off as that kid who tries too hard to be a part of the "cool" crowd. Rose certainly isn't very impressed by him. However, John seems to think Dave is pretty neat.
Also, I'm sure y'all have figured out that the reason Karkat has the Cancer symbol is because he has a crabby personality. :P
I liked the part in Doc Scratch's photo album where Rose was talking to Dave about his crow dream.
At face value the symbolism was pretty straightforward and unambiguous, even self-aware of its cliched nature. Just a bunch of dead Daves being through with dying and watching each other die, and feeling drawn off into the void toward the sun to escape it. Pretty much a direct reference to what was going on in the story, with no need to think too hard or waste hours pondering on what it could be saying about life and death n general.
A fairly obvious meaning, yes, but it was made more interesting and even legitimately eerie by the fact that Rose was there screwing with the mind of a Dave who had no idea if he was currently dead or alive.
I was already tripping out over the endless trial and error of the reincarnicrows, but the mysterious additional detail of Rose tormenting Dave with that dream while he's in yet another potentially inescapable death experience, actually creeped me out, and made me sit and wonder about some pretty weird shit, all in all.
Derse kids are best kids.
I can't wait until we get further into the explanation of the furthest ring and the dream bubbles. I get the feeling that there will be an all you can eat buffet of potential meaning for those who are inclined to seek it out, or at least I hope there will be. The point in the story where they're cruising through the afterlife, or collective unconscious or whatever it is, would presumably be the point in the story where most of the heaviest discussion takes place regarding what the meaning of existence is inside this particular game's omniverse.
I'll probably be kind of disappointed if we don't get a big fat chunk of that stuff at some point before the end of the story, but quite a bit of it has already been sprinkled around here and there, enough to call it a recurring theme, and enough questions have been raised by it that I doubt Mr Hussie will just finish up without going into any more detail or addressing any of that... Uh... Stuff?
I love rambling loads of bullshit.
I think Hussie just spends hours on wikipedia and Google image search, making connections with everything after making a basic skeletal idea of he story.
HUSSIE I WILL CONSUME YOUR DELICIOUS MIND
Has anyone ever considered the fact that Dave may be breaking swords because he's NOT supposed to be using them? Think about how Equius approached Dave about his use of a broken weapon mirroring his own 1/2bowkind. Maybe Dave is using the sword ironicly or because Bro uses a sword. On the flip side of that maybe Dirk uses a sword because Bro uses a 1/2sword. Maybe Dirk's "fated" weapon is the sword just like Daves "fated" strife specibus is the fncysntakind or like the juttingoutimpudentlypuppetasskind or whatever, you get the point. The choice Hephaestus offered Davesprite may very well have been to choose between a broken weapon or a broken personality. Davesprite didn't choose to fix himself because he is stuck as the same person he was when he merged with Seppucrow. Dave may choose to realize that he can only be a hero when he is flinging around some crazy puppet ass and slaughtering Denizens.