The Decline in Quality of Today's Animation (Re: This Cartoon is SHIT)

[inexpediency]

I remember this feud, too. Great times.

I'm pretty sure that quote embodies what I'm feeling pretty accurately. Hey Arnold! was a VERY organic show according to the standards presented in what Mr. Bartlett. The show was fantastic, maybe not because of its top-of-the-line animation, but it was nothing if not exceptionally heartfelt. It remains one of my favorite retro shows, a title held also by Dexter and Teen Titans.

Thank you for that.

You may enjoy browsing this page, then, which is where I found the quote

[Nopad]

hey, the fake video game from cartoon network's level up! is now a real video game that you can play online

i'd provide a link, but i really don't want to find it

[ArmsAreLoud]

I didn't have cable when Hey Arnold was running.

All of my friends talk about how great it was but I have no freaking clue what they are talking about.

[inexpediency]

I didn't have cable when Hey Arnold was running.

All of my friends talk about how great it was but I have no freaking clue what they are talking about.

Hey, there's always time to watch it now! It's on Netflix if you have Netflix, and a few episodes are up on Youtube.

[Quirk]

Anybody in the mood for some crippling nostalgia? With a side of "They Don't Make Them Like They Used To? Here you go:




Branching off of the Hey Arnold bit, I have to say that, despite rose-tinted glasses, a good chunk of those older cartoons had, shall we say, a lot more heart than a lot of what's on now. It's hard to explain, but it had the right feel. The difference between playing a trope straight and playing a trope right. The difference between a house and a home. Dare I say it, the difference between Star Wars Originals and the Prequels. It's that little extra touch of whatever indeterminate, indescribable quality, organity or what have you. Those CN City bumpers they used to play, I think those summarised it best. There was a wholeness to it, a real identity to Cartoon netwrok which they certainly don't have any more.

But now, eh, it feels wrong somehow. Too focused on demographics and ratings and the whims of the people who direct the channel, rather than the creators and audience.

Also, Gendy Tartakofsky Clone Wars. Can I get a show of hands?

[myu2k2]

i remember when Toonami had all those anime remix-vids..... those where just awesome. I also still remember when Moltar was the first host of Toonami (back when Space Ghost C2C and Ghost Planet practically took over Cartoon Network), when the probes where sent into space, when Tom was activated, and when he had the major upgrades to the Absolution. I practically cried when he went "Bang".....

Those CN City bumpers where really good to...

[Mister Visceral]

I remember this feud, too. Great times.

I'm pretty sure that quote embodies what I'm feeling pretty accurately. Hey Arnold! was a VERY organic show according to the standards presented in what Mr. Bartlett. The show was fantastic, maybe not because of its top-of-the-line animation, but it was nothing if not exceptionally heartfelt. It remains one of my favorite retro shows, a title held also by Dexter and Teen Titans.

Thank you for that.

You may enjoy browsing this page, then, which is where I found the quote

I very much did enjoy browsing that page. Wow, Francesca's hella articulate. Now my heart hurts from the nostalgia.

On another point, I was watching Kick Buttowski some... And that is a quality show. It was really neat, and it has a lot of the community commentary... Hell, I'll pull up the quote from the above page:

I find books like those by Roald Dahl even more tribal in their depictions of children, and when you throw in adults it almost becomes a religious/political commentary about human lives in microcosm.

Children can effect adults, but their power is laughably small compared to the parents and authoritative institutions who supposedly have the sole right to define property, social acceptance, and who deserves to be punished and rewarded (and what for).

Everyone goes through this. It is the universal feeling of witnessing abuses of power and having nothing you can do about it.

Think about how many cartoon characters are Kafka stand-ins: they try to do everything right, but every day things just seem to get worse, because the world just seems out to get the protagonist.

TL;DR: an analysis of Hey Arnold in its relation to the Western canon (particularly Dahl and Kafka's social commentary with regards to the powerless) suggests that power corrupts those who are falsely presumed by their peers to be legitimate in their power. This leads to everybody suffering needlessly.

Kick Buttowski builds this community aspect up, too. It isn't quite as potent as it was in HA! or Recess, but it presents a lot more than is present in a vast majority of cartoons today. I loved it.

And then I saw Fanboy and Chum-Chum coming on and saw a little snippit of it... UGH. (the animation was unique though)

I'm surprised that, having pretty nice R&D departments by now, these networks haven't tried to produce these kinds of shows yet. There's a pretty nice demand for them, and I think that some kids would enjoy it over some of their other options. They would potentially get a lot of adult views as well as the kid views.

Phineas and Ferb is great for different reasons. It doesn't quite present the community past the protagonist/nerd/bully/girl archetypes, but those same characters are better scripted and more realistic. The appeal that it has isn't all-encompassing, i.e. there are appeals in the show projected toward kids, and appeals made toward adults. That being said, P&F is still a great show that I enjoy a lot.

tl;dr Kick Buttowski is cool, and so is Phineas and Ferb but for different reasons.

[Quirk]

I'm surprised that, having pretty nice R&D departments by now, these networks haven't tried to produce these kinds of shows yet. There's a pretty nice demand for them, and I think that some kids would enjoy it over some of their other options. They would potentially get a lot of adult views as well as the kid views.

The whole atmosphere in cartoons has changed to reflect the changes in the outside world. Compare now to...let's say 2001 - 2005. 2007 if we stretch it. I won't say back then was the optimistic land of milk and honey, but nowadays feels far more splintered and cynical, though this may be that we we're old enough to know it back then.

Going back to cartoons, nowadays I see most of them as focusing on one of two things: throwing out shit because "kids love this stuff" in a effort to make a quick buck, and attempting to appeal to older viewers in the vein of Adventure Time or Regular show. The latter is all fine and good, but it also means that there's a certain loss of innocence. Cynicism creeps in to snag the demographic of twenty-somethings in an uncertain world, and with that cynicism and loss of innocence we lose the sense of community: it's every show for itself in a dog-eat-dog world. And no matter how much people like shows of that older, more cynical ilk (and don't get me wrong, AT and RS are great shows) what I think people really want is to go back to that time when there was some semblance of a community and heart to their shows. Like some sort of unconscious feeling that "this isn't right." It's what I think has led to FiM's massive popularity, especially with the 20-something age bracket: it has some of that heart and innocence and community that is pretty much gone in media and in the world.

Tl/DR Network executives nowadays are a bunch of cynical bastards, who think that their entire audience is either a) unimaginably stupid or b) cynical bastards themselves.

[Mister Visceral]

Anybody in the mood for some crippling nostalgia? With a side of "They Don't Make Them Like They Used To? Here you go:

-crippling nostalgia clips-

it hurts. Oh my goodness the memories. Anyone remember those little circular card things that you would get and then battle people on the Cartoon Network website? Gog they need to bring that back.

On an unrelated note, I was thinking of Kids Next Door, and how it's like the kid-community... Only pretty much at one extreme of the spectrum.

[Quirk]

Kids Next Door...

Great Scott that was a good show. I mean, there was an episode that managed to be a whole-plot reference to both Star Trek and Moby Dick.

Also Teen Titans. That was an awesome show. I refuse to believe that the Titans exist outside of that show. Except for the comics based on the show. Yes I am directing that at you, 2011 DC Universe reboot.

[inexpediency]

Also Teen Titans. That was an awesome show. I refuse to believe that the Titans exist outside of that show. Except for the comics based on the show. Yes I am directing that at you, 2011 DC Universe reboot.

Well uh...they were a comic long before they were a show

[Quirk]

Also Teen Titans. That was an awesome show. I refuse to believe that the Titans exist outside of that show. Except for the comics based on the show. Yes I am directing that at you, 2011 DC Universe reboot.

Well uh...they were a comic long before they were a show

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Maybe I'm going blind, but those don't look like teenagers to me (Kid flash and BB maybe). I don't know what it is about the art used for them in the comics, but it's equivalent to me being a cat petted backwards. But I digress.

And also I just found out (like five minutes ago) that there are going to be Teen Titan shorts in CN's DC Nation Block next year.

They actually did something right.

[inexpediency]

The team has been around in one form or another since like the 60s but anyway

Really? That's pretty dang sweet.

Just hope they don't screw it up :|a

[Quirk]

Just hope they don't screw it up :|

From the little glimpses I saw, it's the same voice actors, same animation style, except they're going to be shorts instead of a full series, and they will also be chibi-ish. The proper elements seem to be in place.

[myu2k2]

i actually don't see anything wrong with making an animated show for grown ups, but still appropriate and understandable for a kid to watch. I think MAD and Regular Show come pretty close.

i think there should be more investment in this "limbo catagory" that falls between the Cartoon Network Y7 kiddy shows and Adult Swim's TV14/MA shows. There doesn't always need to be alot of swearing, poor subject matter, and realistic violence for a show to be for an adult audiance.

[laserdogbad]

i actually don't see anything wrong with making an animated show for grown ups, but still appropriate and understandable for a kid to watch. I think MAD and Regular Show come pretty close.

i think there should be more investment in this "limbo catagory" that falls between the Cartoon Network Y7 kiddy shows and Adult Swim's TV14/MA shows. There doesn't always need to be alot of swearing, poor subject matter, and realistic violence for a show to be for an adult audiance.

you mean toonami before it got cancled

[ArmsAreLoud]

I think maybe the reason I'm feeling a disconnect from Quirk's argument is that I happen to be a cynical bastard; therefore shows like Adventure Time/Regular Show/Dan Vs. appeal to me more now than much of the stuff I grew up with.

[Theswweet]

Cartoon Network was much better 4-5 years ago, we can ALL agree to that, but why is that?

Its not that the people in charge have changed there status, its the people in charge that have changed.

2007 ATHF Bomb Scare

City and State officials came to an agreement with Turner Broadcasting to pay for costs incurred during the incident. As part of a settlement that resolves all criminal and civil claims, Turner Broadcasting Systems and Interference Inc. agreed to pay $2 million, $1 million of this to go towards the Boston police department, and $1 million towards the United States Department of Homeland Security. In addition, Turner released a statement to take responsibility and apologize for the incident.[5] Less than a week following Turner's apology, Jim Samples stepped down from his 13 year position as head of Cartoon Network, stating that he was "compelled to step down . . . in recognition of the gravity of the situation that occurred under [his] watch." Shortly afterwards Stuart Snyder became the new president of Cartoon Network.[41]

I'm just glad Stuart gave Ed Edd n Eddy that final push to let 'er go... it truly was the best ending I could hope for. btw, we REALLY need an Ed Edd n Eddy thread...

Its sad really, one of the few last people in cartoons that actually somewhat cared about quality, stepped down due to the reactions of something he did not cause...

Atleast for a few months after he stepped down, the shows were still rather decent... but then one by one they got the finales lined up, and the whole slate swept clean. Looking at the time this happened, its hard not to see the pieces fall into place... with shows getting dropped left and right, atleast there was the dignity to create closure.

Still,it makes me sad... I miss these shows, I miss toonami. Its blatantly obvious looking at the parts, that the only reason it latched on so long after the president dropped, is because of Naruto's random burst of popularity... its hard not to cry looking at how the shows trickled away from existence, drying out the creativity from Cartoon Networks line-up...

And leaving my childhood-memories ruined ;_;

[Bellstrom]

Cartoon Network was much better 4-5 years ago, we can ALL agree to that, but why is that?

Its not that the people in charge have changed there status, its the people in charge that have changed.

2007 ATHF Bomb Scare

City and State officials came to an agreement with Turner Broadcasting to pay for costs incurred during the incident. As part of a settlement that resolves all criminal and civil claims, Turner Broadcasting Systems and Interference Inc. agreed to pay $2 million, $1 million of this to go towards the Boston police department, and $1 million towards the United States Department of Homeland Security. In addition, Turner released a statement to take responsibility and apologize for the incident.[5] Less than a week following Turner's apology, Jim Samples stepped down from his 13 year position as head of Cartoon Network, stating that he was "compelled to step down . . . in recognition of the gravity of the situation that occurred under [his] watch." Shortly afterwards Stuart Snyder became the new president of Cartoon Network.[41]

I'm just glad Stuart gave Ed Edd n Eddy that final push to let 'er go... it truly was the best ending I could hope for. btw, we REALLY need an Ed Edd n Eddy thread...

Its sad really, one of the few last people in cartoons that actually somewhat cared about quality, stepped down due to the reactions of something he did not cause...

Atleast for a few months after he stepped down, the shows were still rather decent... but then one by one they got the finales lined up, and the whole slate swept clean. Looking at the time this happened, its hard not to see the pieces fall into place... with shows getting dropped left and right, atleast there was the dignity to create closure.

Still,it makes me sad... I miss these shows, I miss toonami. Its blatantly obvious looking at the parts, that the only reason it latched on so long after the president dropped, is because of Naruto's random burst of popularity... its hard not to cry looking at how the shows trickled away from existence, drying out the creativity from Cartoon Networks line-up...

And leaving my childhood-memories ruined ;_;

Wait, so the root cause of CN becoming complete shit was... Bostonians being idiots?

ok guess i have to hate boston now

[williamcll]

Talking about EdEddnEddy, can someone tell me the last episode (because I unsubscribe to the only method of watching it on television)

[Quirk]

Talking about EdEddnEddy, can someone tell me the last episode (because I unsubscribe to the only method of watching it on television)

Do you mean the movie? because I think that was techically the last episode.

[myu2k2]

I don't see the "trinkling away" as discribed above with the lineup. Most cartoon shows only last 3 seasons at most. It was unusual for the time to have multi shows that have been runing for 6 or more seasons.

Powerpuff Girls, Dexter's Lab, Courage, and Billy and Mandy... gave way to shows like Adventure Time, Chowder/Flapjack, Gumball, and Regular show. There will aways be shows that stand out above the rest, and there would always be someone out there to say "Hey! What ever happened to 'What ever happened to Robot Jones?' i really liked that show. Why was there only one season?"

[Bluesunnyday]

Anybody in the mood for some crippling nostalgia? With a side of "They Don't Make Them Like They Used To? Here you go:

[NOSTALGIA CENSORED TO PREVENT NOSTALGIA OVERLOAD]

Oh... Oh god... I... I need to go lie down a second, all that nostalgia just shattered my brain into a million tiny pieces.

[Dmatix]

Seeing all this, I'm not quite as angry about not having CN where I live anymore. I'm still fairly upset about it though.

[Wheeeeeeatthins]

"We had more heart back then" is one of those arguments you'll see a lot as you get older and it has no merit on its own. If it's all about demographics, now, what was it about before? Was Nickelodeon Viacom's way of giving jobs to starving artists? Were all of those toy tie-ins a coincidence?

Here's how nostalgia works: your memory takes the good stuff and the bad stuff, tosses out the bad stuff, and you're left with only the good stuff--it's memory survival of the hippest. For all of the classic cartoons, you're lumping all of the shows of one long time period together (90s to early 00s) while filtering out the bad ones and comparing that with all of the programming to offer nowadays. Is anyone mourning the loss of shows like Dave the Barbarian and Teamo Supremeo and Weinerville and As Told By Ginger and All Grown Up and Angry Beavers and Mortal Kombat: Invaders of the Realm?

In closing:

Megaman took a bullet for our traditional values.