fantroll crit thread: thread now full, please post in the new one

[twinDoppleganger]

I was referring to the symbol debate portion that did not refer specifically to me, actually, but yeah.

Also, not all Japanese symbols are complicated. It depends on what type of Kanji you use. I'm pretty sure there are at least three different kinds. Still, if I used the simplest form then it would be seven different parts to it, and I don't know what the single Kanji piece for that number would look like, if there even is a single kanji for that number in existence.

Personally, I would suggest something unusual. Troll script is actually the Daedric font from the Elder Scrolls, so there's a precedent for fantasy language.

For an example, you could use D'ni numerals. D'ni is base 25, so it would be written as 6(16)...or if you remove the boarders you can make it a very neat arrow...which actually matches the canonical Sagittarius symbol. Unfortunately, that doesn't match the blood colour, but it's meant just as an example. Scratch that, I'm retarded. It would be 6(19) and simplify as something like this:

or this

And since I seem to have space/time...

> Get on the chopping block.


(Image from trollgen program until I can make/get a better one. It does the job.)

Your name is VARGUS ZHANZHI, and you are about halfway through your seventh sweep. You are an avid participant in EXTREME DEBATE, a hobby you were encouraged into by your lusus, a sort of UPRIGHT-WALKING COBRA, who also ensured that you LOOK THE PART. You have always suspected he got the clothes by eating someone of a higher station than you, but NEVER DARED TO ASK. It always seems like that snake is up to something. Despite being pushed into the sport, you are actually QUITE GOOD AT IT, though you did lose an eye to a NASTY COUNTERARGUMENT. You dream of someday joining the ranks of the DIPLOMAULERS, who have the important duty of settling grievances between Alternia's many military branches with minimal casualties. You have always admired the fact that entry is decided by skill alone, so that no one could ever accuse them of BLOOD PREJUDICE. You train yourself daily, hoping to gain the ELOQUENCE and MARTIAL PROWESS you will need in order to be deemed worthy.

When not engaged in training, you like to read TALES OF THE ANCESTORS, revelling in their DARING EXPLOITS, rises to GLORY, and IGNOBLE ENDS. You can't help but wonder who among them you might have the STRONGEST RELATION to. In your darker moments, though, you have to wonder if you're not just DELUDING YOURSELF. You also have a collection of TRASHY ROMANCE STORIES, which no one must ever know about. You are particularly sympathetic to the plights of MOIRAILS and AUSPISTICES. There is a large amount of clutter around your hive, which you would describe as ORGANIZED CHAOS, but which your lusus is always giving you dirty glares over. Even without being able to talk, he's always criticizing you... Speaking of YOUR HIVE, when you were younger, you built it into a tower that resembles a QUILL AND INKWELL, a decision you REGRET TO THIS DAY.

Your trolltag is conciliateAssailant and when you communicate, you ¾ Show o♈ert pride o♈er the sign o♈ your blood, and ha♈e to insert it where♈er you can. Whene♈er you ha♈e the chance. E♈en if the use o♈ it makes ♈ery little sense. Howe♈er, you are also ♈ery big on the ♈alue o♈ compromise. ½

> Quickly retrieve arms from floor.

Your arms are not on the floor. You have sensibly allocated your COMBAT SCYTHE to your strife deck long ago, and there is no reason that you would go removing it. It is an invaluable TOOL OF PERSUASION and you need to have it ready at all times. Besides, if it had been on the floor, it would have gone into your CONFRONTATION FETCH MODUS. Then you would have had to waste valuable time selecting it as an opponent and either battling or arguing its FETCH ABSTRACTION AVATAR into submission to get it back out. The whole process strikes you as WASTEFUL AND UNNECESSARY but it's also EXCELLENT TRAINING. Besides, your Machiavellian, kingmaker lusus has done something to get rid of any other modus you've ever tried to use.


> ======>

[scintillatingMoniker]

......
I was not aware that trolls never had any choice in the symbols they have, given the fact that that was never explained to me before. *sighs*

Even if it was, your ancestor had an ancestor too. Was his ancestor also in the 169th whatever?

Blargh, whatever then. It can just be the Kanji for Hyaku Roku-Ju Kyu. 169 in Japanese. Could that work? I mean, I know I have seen other trolls with symbols that mean something in another language, so I don't know.

Kanji are lame symbols, find something more symbolic for something about the character rather than something referencing a thing he did.

I also really want to emphasise something important- if people continue to tell you not to do something, it's because they think you shouldn't do it. You got very angry because lots of people critiqued the symbol- that's because the symbol is simply generic, boring and doesn't really mean anything significant. Like I said, I know it sucks when an idea you like is critiqued, but it is critiqued for a reason.

[Quincunx]

@twinDoppelganger:

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[ Spritewise it seems like you’re definitely going to have to redo it because it’s been saved as a jpg, and that makes sprites impossible to edit later on. I’ve yet to see an interesting design come out of that generator so I’d recommend making one yourself from scratch using canon elements or just drawing them by hand. It’s also a generally-accepted thing that trolls don’t have facial hair, considering Karkat didn’t know what shaving cream was. Plus this guy would only be 14-15 or so and I don’t think a lot of people have beards at that age. I’m sure some do, but it’s rather rare.

Does he have the Aries symbol? It’s a little hard to tell. If so, trolls can’t share symbols unless they are ancestors/descendents. ]

Your name is VARGUS ZHANZHI, and you are about halfway through your seventh sweep. You are an avid participant in EXTREME DEBATE, a hobby you were encouraged into by your lusus, a sort of UPRIGHT-WALKING COBRA, who also ensured that you LOOK THE PART. You have always suspected he got the clothes by eating someone of a higher station than you, but NEVER DARED TO ASK. It always seems like that snake is up to something. Despite being pushed into the sport, you are actually QUITE GOOD AT IT, though you did lose an eye to a NASTY COUNTERARGUMENT. You dream of someday joining the ranks of the DIPLOMAULERS, who have the important duty of settling grievances between Alternia's many military branches with minimal casualties. You have always admired the fact that entry is decided by skill alone, so that no one could ever accuse them of BLOOD PREJUDICE. You train yourself daily, hoping to gain the ELOQUENCE and MARTIAL PROWESS you will need in order to be deemed worthy.

[ Get into more about what exactly this skill entails. Is it intellectual or does it require strength and stamina? Also these are trolls we’re talking about. Blood prejudice is everywhere. A redblood is going to have to work really hard to get any position besides being thrown into the meat grinder unit. ]

When not engaged in training, you like to read TALES OF THE ANCESTORS, reveling in their DARING EXPLOITS, rises to GLORY, and IGNOBLE ENDS. You can't help but wonder who among them you might have the STRONGEST RELATION to. In your darker moments, though, you have to wonder if you're not just DELUDING YOURSELF. You also have a collection of TRASHY ROMANCE STORIES, which no one must ever know about. You are particularly sympathetic to the plights of MOIRAILS and AUSPISTICES. There is a large amount of clutter around your hive, which you would describe as ORGANIZED CHAOS, but which your lusus is always giving you dirty glares over. Even without being able to talk, he's always criticizing you... Speaking of YOUR HIVE, when you were younger, you built it into a tower that resembles a QUILL AND INKWELL, a decision you REGRET TO THIS DAY.

[ What do you mean exactly that he’s “sympathetic to the plights of MOIRAILS and AUSPISTICES.”? Those are both necessary quadrants. If someone is a moirail or an auspistice you wouldn’t feel sorry for them generally unless they had a really tough time keeping people in line, and with moirails at least it’s supposed to be a balance.

A quill and inkwell tower? I’m honestly having trouble picturing that. Why did he do such a thing? It’s a little hard to believe a redblood would be allowed such a fancy hive. ]


Your trolltag is conciliateAssailant and when you communicate, you ¾ Show o♈ert pride o♈er the sign o♈ your blood, and ha♈e to insert it where♈er you can. Whene♈er you ha♈e the chance. E♈en if the use o♈ it makes ♈ery little sense. Howe♈er, you are also ♈ery big on the ♈alue o♈ compromise. ½

[ A good rule of thumb for a quirk is that it should be something you can type on a keyboard without any fancy symbols. ]

> Quickly retrieve arms from floor.

Your arms are not on the floor. You have sensibly allocated your COMBAT SCYTHE to your strife deck long ago, and there is no reason that you would go removing it. It is an invaluable TOOL OF PERSUASION and you need to have it ready at all times. Besides, if it had been on the floor, it would have gone into your CONFRONTATION FETCH MODUS. Then you would have had to waste valuable time selecting it as an opponent and either battling or arguing its FETCH ABSTRACTION AVATAR into submission to get it back out. The whole process strikes you as WASTEFUL AND UNNECESSARY but it's also EXCELLENT TRAINING. Besides, your Machiavellian, kingmaker lusus has done something to get rid of any other modus you've ever tried to use.

[ Interesting modus but scythes are really overused as weapons and ultimately don’t make very good ones. I would try to choose another item, maybe one that could be associated with the career he hopes for. ]

[Panzerbear]

It’s also a generally-accepted thing that trolls don’t have facial hair, considering Karkat didn’t know what shaving cream was. Plus this guy would only be 14-15 or so and I don’t think a lot of people have beards at that age. I’m sure some do, but it’s rather rare.

I was under the impression that the Thresh Prince bit was fairly canon evidence that trolls do have facial hair. Not knowing what shaving cream is could be chalked up to cultural differences in regards to naming things (i.e. animal names, yard vs. lawnring, etc.)

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And as someone who developed facial hair fairly early... well, there could be a compromise of just making it a tad on the scraggly side, unless we're going for a mustache of authority.

[Monkeysky]

I'd agree with the issues that Quincunx mentioned above, but I still think there's potential for making this a cool idea! A sort of ruthless troll interrogator could be a very cool, and possibly scary, character.

Did anyone have any issues with mine, on the last page?

[Quincunx]

Ah I forgot about the Thresh Prince. I guess they can then.

As for the brownblood astronomer guy, the cosmic energy absorption is a bit strange. Laser eye beams is a feasible psychic power just by itself. "Cosmic energy" is sort of a vague phrase so you may as well just replace it with light? Like, absorbing starlight or moonlight makes it stronger and is the only way he can do so because direct sunlight would blind him..

[Monkeysky]

Ah I forgot about the Thresh Prince. I guess they can then.

As for the brownblood astronomer guy, the cosmic energy absorption is a bit strange. Laser eye beams is a feasible psychic power just by itself. "Cosmic energy" is sort of a vague phrase so you may as well just replace it with light? Like, absorbing starlight or moonlight makes it stronger and is the only way he can do so because direct sunlight would blind him..

That's pretty much what it is, but I suppose he could feasibly get other types of radiation as well.

If he ever got the tiger, he could probably utilize the Green Sun to become super powerful or something.

[scintillatingMoniker]

That doesn't sit well with me because the Green Sun should power First Guardians and Lord English- nothing else. It's not even technically a sun.

[Monkeysky]

That doesn't sit well with me because the Green Sun powers First Guardians and Lord English- nothing else.

Was that ever confirmed?
I know that all Fg's were powered by it, but does it ever say that only they are? Even Jade wasn't really sure about this.
Of course, he would have to actually go to the Green Sun to get this energy, but after that, he would be in pretty good shape.
This is all just speculation, however.

[twinDoppleganger]

@Quincunx:

First of all, thank you and everyone else who commented. I am taking notes!

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[ Spritewise it seems like you’re definitely going to have to redo it because it’s been saved as a jpg, and that makes sprites impossible to edit later on. I’ve yet to see an interesting design come out of that generator so I’d recommend making one yourself from scratch using canon elements or just drawing them by hand. It’s also a generally-accepted thing that trolls don’t have facial hair, considering Karkat didn’t know what shaving cream was. Plus this guy would only be 14-15 or so and I don’t think a lot of people have beards at that age. I’m sure some do, but it’s rather rare.

Does he have the Aries symbol? It’s a little hard to tell. If so, trolls can’t share symbols unless they are ancestors/descendents. ]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, spritewise. I never saw that sprite as anything but a placeholder (though I did draw the missing eye). You're probably right about him being too young for facial hair one way or the other, but what about skin discolouration? I'm pretty sure some of the canon trolls have that.

As for the symbol, it is the Aries symbol, but slanted. I know that it's implied that the symbols are generational, but given the size also suggested for their race, it seemed like farfetchedness to me that every troll would get a completely unique symbol. Personally, I think it more likely that some trolls share a common ancestor, and there be minor/moderate variations on the symbols so that a "unique" version can be issued to different individuals.

[ Get into more about what exactly this skill entails. Is it intellectual or does it require strength and stamina? Also these are trolls we’re talking about. Blood prejudice is everywhere. A redblood is going to have to work really hard to get any position besides being thrown into the meat grinder unit. ]

I'm not sure I understand where the confusion is. If you mean the skills he needs, I thought that saying it took Eloquence and Martial Prowess, as well as the fact that it is a portmanteau of "Diplomat" and "Mauler" covered that. Or do you mean that I should go into more detail about the job itself, and explain the exact sort of Sleuth Diplomacy that they employ?


[ What do you mean exactly that he’s “sympathetic to the plights of MOIRAILS and AUSPISTICES.”? Those are both necessary quadrants. If someone is a moirail or an auspistice you wouldn’t feel sorry for them generally unless they had a really tough time keeping people in line, and with moirails at least it’s supposed to be a balance.

A quill and inkwell tower? I’m honestly having trouble picturing that. Why did he do such a thing? It’s a little hard to believe a redblood would be allowed such a fancy hive. ]

In any romance novel, the story focuses on the relationships between characters. In troll romance novels, the story arcs would be even more elaborate, focusing on five or more main characters, due to the complexity of troll romance. So what I mean is that the characters in his books that Vargus is most sympathetic towards, the ones he reads his tawdry stories for, are the moirail and auspistice characters. The parts of the stories he likes aren't the parts about the blackrom and redrom partners and their efforts to fill the filial pails, but rather about their pale and ashen partners; whether Sveldri can assuage Tordelli before he loses Pretenka forever, and if Kaldex can keep Freyga from falling full blackrom for Dethir when everyone can see that it will never be reciprocated the way Freyga wants?...and in the end, yes they can. Err...I should use that, shouldn't I?

As for the tower, I don't think it's all that out there. Trolls are supposed to design their own hives, and have to live with whatever stupid design they come up with. From what I could tell, even lowbloods get pretty fair sized dwellings. What I had pictured was something like a squat, bottle-shaped building of one, maybe two stories, with a tower containing a spiral staircase extending upward, and halls/floors/rooms branching off of the central tower like the bristles on a feather. I suppose I could see the question of why he would pick that, but it's not really clear how developed trolls are when they build their hive (presumably enough to understand the basics of architecture). I guess I could change it to anything else similarly regrettable, like basing the design off his lusus. I'm not sure it's really that major a point, though, is what I'm saying.

[ A good rule of thumb for a quirk is that it should be something you can type on a keyboard without any fancy symbols. ]

Actually, you can type those on a keyboard. ½ = ALT + 171, ¼ = ALT + 172, for example. I suppose I could use √ (ALT + 251) and change my symbol to a square root, rather than an Aries character, but this one is actually quite doable either way (and even easier on Pesterchum).

[ Interesting modus but scythes are really overused as weapons and ultimately don’t make very good ones. I would try to choose another item, maybe one that could be associated with the career he hopes for. ]

I had considered giving him a WRITINGKIND specibus, where pens, typewriters, etc...morph into other weapons, playing off of Problem Sleuth (like Kanaya's chainsaw-morphing lipstick), but thought it would be a little bit silly and hard to describe. I'm sure I can think of something better, though. Really, I suppose a scythe would be more of a Cavalreaper thing anyway.

[CrazedWormHole]

At the moment, all I want is Sprite Criticism.



Any comments?

[Monkeysky]

The teeth look a bit weird, and his head is pretty large.

[CrazedWormHole]

Tried fixing the teeth. Also tweaked some minor stuff. Can't make the head smaller without it looking weird tough.

[Monkeysky]

Yeah, the teeth look better now.
Is he supposed to be small, because his head is nearly as wide as his shoulders?

[CrazedWormHole]

He's not supposed to be that small. 7-8 Sweeps or so. Then again, AB sprites aren't exactly known for their perfect proportions.

[Monkeysky]

Yeah, but they do show a stylized version of the character's proportions.
Is this guy supposed to be sort of skinny?

[PrussianMoose]

The Style of the sprite is MUCH different from anything we've seen in canon.
But if you're going for a more realistic look I would say that the head and neck are too large for the shoulders and his arm would not leave a gap.

Take your own arm an how it falls by your side, if you have a waist odds are it'll leave a gap by the forearm but not were the arm lies next to the upper body. For all purposes his elbow is too far up.

That's about it! You seem to have a really good start, I can't wait to see where you go with this.

[CrazedWormHole]

Lowered his elbows, closed in the arms, tried broadening his shoulders a bit.

[Monkeysky]

Looks a lot better to me.

[AnatidaeCollector]

Never thought of the recuperacoon thing. I guess my troll would deal with the nightmares and possibly even use them to fuel the RARRR I'M A BLUEBLOOD facade.

The other reactions that happen when the liarblood starts to bleed would probably have to rely on the other trolls in that RP. Some would react worse than others, obviously. Some might even be sympathetic. Who knows?

Also, just wondering, I haven't been able to find the sheet that lets you make the fancy, tall-looking sprites. Can anyone direct me to it? I have a mac, if that matters...

[Captain Whosit]

I'm not personally of the opinion that trolls can just "deal with" the nightmares they would have. It's never gone into explicitly, but I imagine if they have a substance specifically for making those nightmares go away, it's a pretty bad thing. As for the reactions of others, well, that of course depends on the other characters in your RP, though anyone who's hemoloyal will probably not react well, especially if they're not good friends with your character. I don't imagine the average troll is terribly sympathetic.

There should be links to the canon AB sprites in one of the first few posts in the trollslum thread.

[Firebird766]

That link is just to download every single sprite in AB. It's a huge number of pictures and there aren't any plain unadorned bases to use. So yeah, it's pretty inconvenient.

A sheet of Ab bases would be really nice, though.

[ThisIsZen]

Alrighty, fixed up Zhixue's sprites (and added a couple I hadn't cropped into the sprite image last time) and cleaned up her talksprite's hair edges a bit. Probably gonna clean up lines and such some more, but any other criticisms? And does her character seem rounded enough?

Just gonna repost the whole blurb because I doubt anyone wants to go back to the other thread and I CBA to link to it. Spoiler'd for novel.

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==>Be the agoraphobe bookworm.

That's inaccurate in several ways. Perhaps try something a bit closer to true?

==>Be the historian ghost-hunter.

A bit better.



Your name is ZHIXUE CHEN, and you are ENGAGED IN RESEARCH.

You have always had a fascination with HISTORY of any sort, as well as MYTHS, and have amassed a great LIBRARY of BOOKS on the subject. You have BOOKs on everything from Greek to Chinese to African history, as well as a vast collection of folk tales and legends. While not technically a MYTH, you are particularly fond of both the DIVINE COMEDY and (the original) GRIMM'S FAIRYTALES. Obviously, you also enjoy other sorts of LITERATURE.

As a natural extention (or so you see it) of your interest in the past, you are an avid believer in the DECEASED PARANORMAL. You are active on several GHOST-BASED INTERNET FORA and have active subscriptions to three PARANORMAL JOURNALS. One of these is of DUBIOUS LEGITIMACY if we are making understatements but it amuses you so you maintain the subscription. Somewhat contrastingly, you are not a big believer in GHOST MEDIUMS or other "mystic" methods of CONTACTING THE DEAD. You do have a OUIJA BOARD though, but it was a joke gift.

You are far from an inactive bookworm, though. You are an active ATHLETE, enjoying SKATING in the winter and SOCCER in the summer. You jump back and forth between MEDIEVAL RE-ENACTMENT and CLASSICAL FENCING depending on your tastes and available time, which is clearly rather busy. When the weather is good and you do not have other arrangements, you enjoy HIKING nearby, but often make the mistake of STRAYING FROM THE BEATEN PATH. This is never a good idea and always puts you in a foul mood. You are also fond of MUSIC, but require it have a good MELODY. You are particularly fond of the FLUTE. You have an average SINGING VOICE but don't have the time to devote to it.

You dabble in FICTIONAL WRITING and POETRY but are not particularly GOOD at either. You are AWARE of this, but nonetheless attempt to IMPROVE. You do not have much TIME though and so your writing remains rather BAD.

Your last interest is in the I-CHING. You do not tend to view it with the same SKEPTICISM as you regard other "mystic" things, because it is based on PROBABILITY which is LOGICAL AND ORDERLY.

As was hinted at earlier, you are not fond of SHEER HEIGHTS which rather contrasts with your LOVE OF HIKING. You are also not fond of ANYTHING LOUD or of sounds which are DISHARMONIOUS or CACOPHONOUS. You have somewhat sensitive hearing and these sounds are PAINFUL to you. You are also not fond of people who are EXTREMELY CHEERFUL or really just anyone who is ridiculously ENTHUSIASTIC. You respect enthusiasm, sure, but it has to be tempered with a bit of self-awareness. You are also mildly CLAUSTROPHOBIC, though it takes a very small space to set you on edge. Your greatest dislike, however, is TRAVELLING. Your life is very ordered, as is your living space, and you have most of what you need right here. You see no need to upset the balance. This occasionally leads other people to consider you BORING. You do not care.

You live with your AUNT in her house in suburban VICTORIA, in BRITISH COLUMBIA. You would live with your PARENTS, but your FATHER has been MISSING for YEARS and it is a rather sore spot. No, he didn't walk out. Missing, as in, police search and rescue units. Your MOTHER cannot support you due to recent UNEMPLOYMENT and had to send you to live with a willing AUNT. Despite this earlier TURMOIL, your life now is rather STABLE. You have a PART-TIME JOB as a CASHIER at a local GROCERY STORE.

Your STRIFE SPECIBUS is PARYDGGRKIND, although at the moment you only have a REPLICA PARRYING DAGGER to use with it. Fortunately, you have no particular reason to STRIFE. You also have a RAPIERKIND specibus, but dislike using it except when fencing. You just borrow other SPECIBI when doing REENACTMENT FIGHTING.

Your Fetch Modus is the I-Ching Modus. Items are captchalogued randomly into one of two circles, each one corresponding to a single TRIGRAM. To retrieve items, you throw 6 coins and create a HEXAGRAM - any item in either card will be available for use. It can be annoying but you've found that probability is frequently on your side - even if you didn't know you'd be needing the item you actually get.

If you were ever to play SBurb, you would eventually become the Wraith of Paths, in the Land of Fog and Fire. Your consorts would be pheasants. You use the web browser SOJOURNER, and the chat client Pesterchum (because why would you use anything else?) and your Chumhandle is ghostcloudMountain.

[Firebird766]

I would like more sprite advice, both for my specific questions and in general.

This guy is supposed to look life kicked the crap out of him. He's also supposed to look 16 sweeps old, which as you can see I completely failed at doing. Do you know how I can fix it up like that? I'll color in the lines of his clothing after that.


Something's wrong with this guy's eyes, but I'm not sure what. Advice?

[Monkeysky]

They're very very round?

E: Also, would anyone be willing to make AB sprites for any of the trolls I've shown so far?

Indigo is very small and thin, Brown is fairly average, if a bit weak, and Blue is pretty muscular, with a very large head and neck.

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