fantroll crit thread: thread now full, please post in the new one

[volcanicRage]

He deduces his ancestry from his claws, symbol and blood helped by the fact that his ancestor is relatively known as a traitor. They're supposed to be claws as in an insect's: They're basically part of his fingers. Also this is basically an AU troll since he's part of a SGRUB RP.

His ancestor is better known by the younger highbloods because he's not a Rebel, he's a Traitor and his name is waved around as an example of what happens to whoever goes against the empress.

He's a greenblood by the way.

[Quincunx]

Ah I see. But my point stands that ancestors are not commonly known, even by higher-blooded children. Alternia has likely had thousands of rebels and traitors. Maybe some adult highbloods might recognize him, but on Alternia he'd probably be alright, if teased about his weird claws. That he's not part of an SGRUB game has nothing to do with it.

[scintillatingMoniker]

Something to remember if you ever decide to include ancestors as a part of a character- Trolls knowing about their ancestors is such an obscenely rare occurance that it is entirely debatable that ancestors do not exist at all.

[volcanicRage]

Still, he resembles his ancestor closely enough that showing his claws would probably draw trolls to his doorstep. Also his acts of treason are schoolfed to young trolls in Alternia.

[Quincunx]

It's awfully hard to swallow that some lowblood rebel would be so notorious that young trolls would learn about him when they're not taught about the Sufferer or the Summoner. Why do you want him to have notoriety based on this when he could have notoriety based on far more plausible acts? It's edging into Gary Stu territory.

[volcanicRage]

Keziah is not notorious at all. They're technically not lowbloods, and Bearhand is a "Thane", that means he's a retainer of someone in higher nobility. He betrays the highbloods, tries to get the empress out of the throne and is killed. The Sufferer and Summoner were ERASED from history because they didn't want any lowbloods following on their footsteps. The Betrayer's story is used as a way to teach the young highbloods how to recognize and deal with traitors.

[Quincunx]

But you do want him to be notorious or at least recognized as such because he's the descendant of this guy. I think you're relying too much on this guy's ancestor to lend character to his descendant and that's not a good idea because it doesn't seem like Keziah has enough behind him to make him an interesting person on his own.

And again, I don't think this sort of thing would be so infrequent that they'd chose to make an example out of this one guy.

[scintillatingMoniker]

the problem with making a statement like 'my ancestor was famous and everyone has heard of him because he's used as an example' is that not everyone has heard of him. Outside of the fiction, you just made him up, so your addition to the canon conflicts with everyone elses. Not only that, but wouldn't the troll empire immediately destroy any ancestor of this rebellious traitor? Why would they let someone like that live if trolls believe that descendants follow the path of their ancestors?

Not only that but a long prosperous history of successful war and no rebellion looks way more successful than one failed rebellion, and trolls never question their history or we'd see it happening, none of the canons seem to care about troll history except maybe Equius, who of course eats all that propaganda shit up.

Not only that but teaching people about a failed rebellion would only make another rebellion more likely, because they can see the flaws and what went wrong and correct them.

[volcanicRage]

First, he's an AU troll because he's in an RP where he plays SGRUB. If he was a canon troll then he'd be dead, killed by meteors, or his session would have killed the canon one with meteors, which didn't happen.

Second, The empire wouldn't have known who he was when he was a grub and his symbol is assigned to him. What he fears is not the empire hunting him but young, violent highbloods that want his corpse for a trophy.

Third, I said that the story was schoolfed to young Highbloods, who honestly would have no reason to follow Bearhand's example but would easily go hunting people who showed any signs of treason for fun, and in this case profit.

[Quincunx]

You can't just excuse everything by saying it's an AU. We told you why it wouldn't make sense for his ancestor's history to be schoolfed to anybody. If you didn't intend to listen to any advice offered, why did you bother posting in this thread?

[volcanicRage]

I'm not trying to explain it away with it being an AU. That just makes his ancestor's story not conflict with canon.

You are saying I am not following your advice, but your advice goes against his basic personality: He's not confrontational. He can't be an activist.

[Quincunx]

It's not that it conflicts with the canon storyline. It conflicts with troll society in general.

I didn't say you had to make him an activist. Just that you could get the same effect you desire in a different way. Perhaps he's not an activist then. Maybe he messed up badly and destroyed something or killed a lot of people accidentally. That would get a good deal of other trolls out for his blood.

[scintillatingMoniker]

Second, The empire wouldn't have known who he was when he was a grub and his symbol is assigned to him.

Why not? Wouldn't the fact that he is the only troll on the planet with the same symbol as his ancestor give them some clues? Or the identical blood colors? Infact, the fact that ancestors and descendants ALWAYS have the same symbol would imply that the empire already has a way of figuring out who your ancestor is. Even if they don't, Trolls don't seem like the type of species to just go 'hey this one might not have anything to do with that one rebel, let's leave it alone', no, trolls are cruel and vindictive and paranoid and thorough.

[volcanicRage]

The point is that people easily recognizing him is more of an unreasonable fear he has. He THINKS people would easily recognize him, but he doesn't KNOW if they will. He doesn't KNOW that bearhand is his ancestor, but he THINKS he is. His whole life revolves around that paranoia.

[volcanicRage]

Still, we don't see Tavros being culled as soon as he gets his symbol, or Karkat for having mutant candy-red blood. That pretty much means that the empire doesn't handle those things and it's entirely possible that they're handled by the lusus that took them in.

[Quincunx]

Make it more clear that this is mostly in his head then. And Tavros and Karkat were created by ectobiology, not hatched, so their cirumstances aren't comparable to a fantroll. We don't yet know how trolls get their symbols exactly so we can't say for certain there isn't empire involvement.

[volcanicRage]

They aren't hatched, but they still do go through the cave of trials thing, and after that they are picked by a lusus and given the chance to build their hives.

[Quincunx]

I suppose so, but we still don't have enough information to judge. This is not the biggest issue here though. It's his paranoia. Having all this ancestor stuff mostly in his head is a lot more believable than having the guy be some super-rebel that all the highbloods know about, and it makes him a more interesting character too. I would definitely encourage you to go that route.

[scintillatingMoniker]

Karkat is explicitly said to be a special case because of the sufferer's cult spending decades planning ahead for it.

[aspiringHelpfulness]

Ok, so I fixed up my troll's profile and edited the sprite a bit (It's all in the spoiler). It's 4 paragraphs shorter, but still seems kinda long. Also, Quincunx, she doesn't cut her hair because she doesn't want to look at the scar on her forehead.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Your name is Chasma Inviso. You are 7 and a half sweeps old and you dislike leaving your hive. Despite this, you realize that you have to. This is kind of a long story though. For now, you’ll stick with describing yourself. You are a JADEBLOOD, but now you hide it due to feelings of distrust. There’s a scar hidden under your hair that you don’t want to look at. You don't like fashion or colors, whether blood colors or otherwise, that much. However, you're keeping the cape and scarf. They look cool, you guess.

You pretty much secluded yourself from the outside world (you sometimes leave and roam around to avoid drawing suspicion to yourself, but you never say anything). You dislike seeing other trolls PERSONALLY, but you are perfectly fine online, as long as you don’t have to show your appearance. Occasionally, a troll or two would find their way into your hive. Sometimes, they would be harmless. You let them go as long as they say nothing about you. These types never show up again. Other times, they would be violent. You kill these violent trolls with either of the following: spear, flamethrower, tommygun, or your lusus, a GIANT BOA CONSTRICTOR. You don't like personal contact. You actively try to avoid it

You play and enjoy a lot of VIDEO GAMES. You don't like to leave your hive to meet other people, so you interact with them online instead. You have a hard time trusting other trolls, but if they can’t kill you from where they currently are, you can stand them. You might even come to RESPECT them, if they manage to sway your opinions or feelings a LOT. One such troll helped you think of ways to overcome your dislike of leaving (you developed flushed feelings for her). Another one pissed you off so bad that you went black for him. In a rare act of trust (and desperation), you confessed your feelings and told them your location in case the drones come. They seemed to reciprocate. Especially your kismesis.

You have also taken to CREATIVE WRITING recently, and have decided to become an AUTHORECLUSIVE, a troll who spends their entire life hiding in a remote place, writing as much as they can. You've built up a small REPUTATION as a writer of fanfiction, having made about five of them. Your works differ from the norm. You mean they're much simpler, and more optimistic. There is less focus on quadrants and the hemospectrum. The biggest difference would be that there are FEWER DEATHS. Your most recent one, which is nearing its end, is a story of six troll friends from different castes, who team up and play a UNIQUE and SIMPLE GAME that will ultimately DEVELOP THEIR CHARACTER and SOLVE SOME PERSONAL PROBLEMS. You receive a lot of messages from trolls who both love and hate your work. None of them actually know where you live, and they don't go out of their way to actually look for you, so you're safe from them. You address their criticisms as much as possible. And that is the extent of your reputation as a writer.

Speaking of which, you are known online as unseenSeclusion [US]. /You enclose your sentences in slashes to show restraint; and you try even harder when you're feeling strong emotions.\ //LIKE THIS!\\

BACKSTORY:

show spoiler

hide spoiler

You were basically alone as a wiggler. Only a few trolls talked to you, but they were either: violent, manipulative, or thought you were weird. Anyway, because of this, you started disliking personal contact. You decided to build your hive underground. Some troll decided to build their hive over yours. You disliked him a lot at first, but since he was there anyway, you put up with him. He seemed to be different from the other wigglers you met as a wiggler, so you became interested in him. You eventually became MOIRAILS. You picked up each other's interests. He had a hard time forming an opinion, so you helped him with that. You also showed him how to properly use his keyKind abstratus, and recommended he buy a new strife card. He got a can of stripper that somehow turned into a flamethrower. In return, he tried to help you overcome your shyness for about a sweep. He found that it wasn't working so he suggested you talk with others via internet instead. You enjoyed it so much. You enjoyed having him there.

Then, something happened. When you were four sweeps old, two bluebloods decided to break into your moirail’s hive with the intent of filling a pail with a random troll. They killed him and his lusus in the attempted break-in, so they looted the place instead. They found their way into your hive, and decided you were good enough. Your lusus was out, so you fought back. They tried to knock you out with their weapons, leaving a scar on your forehead. Before they could attempt anything else, your lusus suddenly came back and ensnared the two, allowing you to finish them off.

His death was kind of traumatic for you, but you tried not to focus on that. You returned what the bluebloods stole to their proper place. You took all of his possessions: His entire collection of games, his fetch modus, his strife deck, and his cape and scarf (OK, you admit it. You also wear them because of your moirail). His hive is also pretty much yours now. You secluded yourself in your double-hive; your only method of communication being the internet. Your lusus brings you food, although you’ve gotten more used to not eating for extended periods of time. You only go out for a few minutes to avoid others from becoming suspicious (even then, you avoid any sort of contact). You try to cope with his death by continuing to interact with others online, and by finishing all the video games he always wanted to play. You wonder what he'd say to you now...

Also, @volcanicRage: The major issues have already been pointed out, so I'm just gonna ask some questions about him. If meat is important to his diet, and he can't hunt the wild animals, how does he get it? Also, is he hindered by the gloves while hunting? Seems like the gloves would make him stronger. Also, since he's going to be used for an RP, I think you've already thought of this, but would his paranoia have some effect upon his relationships with other trolls?

[OrangeAipom]

Couldn't she wear a hat?

[Quincunx]

Yes and fanfiction still isn't universally pessimistic, even troll fanfiction, and there's no such thing as a standard length so I really don't know where you're going with that. Considering what she writes about she would probably be more infamous than anything, because most trolls wouldn't necessarily appreciate a story where everyone got along. You're going to have to provide a better reason for why her work is so distinct.

Also, like I said, why can't she dye her hair? Or wear a hat, or a headband.

[volcanicRage]

Also, @volcanicRage: The major issues have already been pointed out, so I'm just gonna ask some questions about him. If meat is important to his diet, and he can't hunt the wild animals, how does he get it? Also, is he hindered by the gloves while hunting? Seems like the gloves would make him stronger. Also, since he's going to be used for an RP, I think you've already thought of this, but would his paranoia have some effect upon his relationships with other trolls?

The comment about hunting being dangerous is meant to explain why he hunts for ingredients mostly in plants. He can, in fact, hunt some of the animals.
The gloves ARE his strife specibus but they aren't any kind of special gloves, they're just the ones he uses to hide his claws. His claws are more efficient when killing things.
I didn't touch on Troll relationships BECAUSE he's a an RP character. Most of his relationships with trolls haven't been flashed out yet since the RP hasn't started.

[Quincunx]

Look friend, this isn't the 'argue every point someone else brings up' thread. If people are saying something is an issue, it's going to be seen as an issue by other RPers most likely as well. And even if he doesn't yet have any strong relationships he must have interacted with other trolls before.

Go redo his profile to address these issues and then we'll take another look at it, okay?

[BenevolentDemon]

ok guys!!! this seems to bear repeating (again): this is the crit thread. pointing out the answers to questions that have been raised is one thing, but arguing against polite constructive criticism is rude and not ok!! it's in the rules, acutally!

6. THIS IS IMPORTANT. Accept criticism on your trolls. If people are telling you an aspect of your troll is flawed, ACKNOWLEDGE IT and discuss it POLITELY. If you are going to come in here and blindly defend every single aspect of your troll, why did you bother posting?

just a polite reminder to keep your crit responses civil c: