Legend of Korra: finale spoilers

[Oblivion]

That requires more patience than I have on hand.

[Quirk]

Who else would like to see the Earthbender one as a nerd? A geeky kid who's more interested in the chemical composition of the earth he bends than smashing bad guys with rocks, and would rather think things through like an airbender than power straight through the opposition like most earthbenders.

Thoughts?

Earth Guy - the nerd. A very capable and brilliant commander.
Fire Girl - Street scum. Very little formal training, but still a rather mature individual.
Air Girl - Quiet, contemplative, wants to study the cosmos. Not as childish as Aang.

[*Sigh*]

So basically the Fire girl has to go through a path of learning responsibility? I can see it now, the Avatar searcher guys never found her because of some tragedy involving her parents, forcing her to live on the street. She never realized that she was the Avatar until around 15-ish, and has to learn how to take care of the balance of entire nations when at the beginning of her life all she knew how to do was take care of herself.

[Quirk]

So basically the Fire girl has to go through a path of learning responsibility? I can see it now, the Avatar searcher guys never found her because of some tragedy involving her parents, forcing her to live on the street. She never realized that she was the Avatar until around 15-ish, and has to learn how to take care of the balance of entire nations when at the beginning of her life all she knew how to do was take care of herself.

Yeah, pretty much. Saying what their personal path is actually a better way of describing them, really.

Earth Guy - Learns to treat people like people and build relationships.
Fire Girl - Learns responsibility and leadership, looking out for people other than herself.
Air Girl - Stops standing on the sidelines as an observer.

[AnatidaeCollector]

DASKJAGSKGASJ I LIKE WHERE THIS THREAD IS GOING.
AVATAR SPACE OPERA. IN SPACE. WITH BENDING SHIT.
AND NERDY EARTHBENDERS.
OHOHOHO YES.

And I would love to see what would happen if they did an Avatar series in a modern jeans-and-t-shirt modern Manhattan-type city full of far too many people.
Or- what if the modern!Earthbender!Avatar was set in a place like California or Jersey? WHAT THEN. [0]_[0]

[Elementoid]

All of these ideas sound really fantastic, but at the same time I feel like making things too modern would make it feel too different. I really liked the old-world feel of ATLA, and it's already starting to get kind of weird with Korra.

[kaoticAntagonist]

Well, one of things to remember is that there really isn't any contemporary "western" culture to affect the Avatar world. So while they will advance they may never advance in such a way like China and other asian countries did, what with the influence of western clothes, medicine, etc.

[BewareOfNerd]

All of these ideas sound really fantastic, but at the same time I feel like making things too modern would make it feel too different. I really liked the old-world feel of ATLA, and it's already starting to get kind of weird with Korra.

Yeah.

[*Sigh*]

All of these ideas sound really fantastic, but at the same time I feel like making things too modern would make it feel too different. I really liked the old-world feel of ATLA, and it's already starting to get kind of weird with Korra.

But you have to remember, war is one of the greatest reasons for invention production when it comes to people, and when you look at the quite frankly astounding works of engineering capabilities that the Fire Nation cooked up during the 100 Year War, most of the civilian versions of those now-defunct inventions are fairly justified in-universe.

[Triangle Man]

My God, you guys have made an 'IN SPACE' adaption of this series seem not completely sucky.

...Would they have the internet in a modern setting? Would it have a bunch of videos of teenagers hurting themselves while trying to do stupid things with their bending?

[Milskidasith]

The only problem I see with Avatar is that the farther you get into the future, the more "why is bending practical again" sets in; you either have to start hyperpowering bending (even beyond bloodbending without motion, honestly), or suspiciously leave technology out (see: Everything in Harry Potter, everything weaponized in Naruto, etc). Or just make everybody absolutely terrible shots and give the heroes (more) immunity to getting hurt by concussive blasts as longer and more powerful guns and artillery become ubiquitous.

Granted, bending has a lot of potential applications in a non combat sense, but in a combat sense... it just doesn't. Especially in space, where there's literally not going to be anything to bend and the general collateral damage caused by bending would be incredibly problematic.

To look at it in another sense, they're already at the point where non bending weapons are a huge threat to bending forces, and what do they have now? Melee range shock weapons, mechs (made of platinum, which must be incredibly abundant in the avatar-verse) that can only slowly fire shocking claws out, zeppelins with no real combat capability, and planes equipped with dumb bombs. If non-bending weapons technology advances any further, you either have to start giving everybody more powerful bending and constant bending based kinetic shields... or you have to start ignoring the implications. One of the good things about both TLA and Korra is that they were pretty good about those same implications with technology; firebending tech was a huge advantage, and now the non-bending weapons are used as a credible threat.

EDIT: I still find "AVATAR IN SPACE" silly because bending and SPACE don't work together. Every episode would either have to be planetside, ignore bending, or have whatever ship they're in always get boarded.

[Ladybug]

I rather like the idea of integrating bending into technology - much like lightningbending at a factory to power it.

[Triangle Man]

So maybe warp gate technology would be a better option if we were going to be serious about this.

Also, I could honestly see a modern version of this show being sort of like Earthbound; the protagonists are specially gifted, they go out on this huge urban adventure to stop some sort of corrupting evil being, laughs and weirdness abound as they journey to old ruins and all corners of the world, sometimes things are sad...

Granted, rising technology could be a problem, but maybe in that series you could show bending as a dying art, practiced only as a hobby and with little practical real world uses. This could be the cause of some of the problems within the hypothetical series itself somehow (people turning aside bending also turn aside the spiritual aspects of bending, making them more suspectible to 'evil influence' by some etheric being or something like that).

I dunno. It's problematic, but it could be fine tuned into something awesome...

[AnatidaeCollector]

I definitely trust the show's creators with making a modernized/futurized version of Avatar if they do decide to go that route. I think they've done a great job with Korra and the tech balance there.

I do like the idea of bending being seen as obsolete- until the new Avatar shows up and then they have to work to bring benders back into the swing of things and stuff. That could work nicely for current!Avatar.
I do think that space could be kinda gimmicky since benders vs aliens just sounds kinda failish, but just spaceships could be cool. But in a futuristic hovercar-and-artificial-intelligence type of setting on Earth (I'm seeing something very Blade Runner here), future!Avatar could work nicely. I can kind of see it taking on a dystopian turn, with non-benders exploiting benders' skills for some sort of corporate government (forced labor in power plants for firebenders, enslaving earthbenders to mine stuff, wiring airbenders into machines to work turbines for factories, etc), since everyone loves a futuristic dystopia. Robots keep everyone in check and make sure that the benders don't rise up and rebel against the non-benders who exploit their powers, and the Avatar has to fight for the freedom of her(?) people and stuff.

[Elementoid]

Oh, here's a question. The avatar is a link between the human and spirits worlds, but is that link specifically to their world (Earth) or the human realm as a whole? If the entirety of the universe were the playing field, I feel like the spirits would need someone more powerful than the avatar to oversee things.

[Milskidasith]

I definitely trust the show's creators with making a modernized/futurized version of Avatar if they do decide to go that route. I think they've done a great job with Korra and the tech balance there.

This is exactly the problem. At this point bending is already roughly equal to technology. While I don't see a problem with integrating bending and technology, the fact is that the technology aspect is going to start being quite a lot more powerful and important than the bending aspect the farther along you go. The concept of having bending being a dying art or seen as impractical might work, but unless it gets massively more powerful (and again, I mean more than just lightningbending being somewhat more common and Amon level bloodbending) I can't see it really working as a dominant force in even a modern day show, let alone a sci-fi or space opera show. There's possibility there, but it just feels like the "relevance" of the Avatar would be diminished when it's bending is no longer the force on which the world turns.

EDIT: In a more modern show, I can see benders being used as a special ops force with the main force being based on technology, and they could obviously do specialized work, but I can't see them being significantly more impactful than that. And at that point, we may just have something similar to Avatar: Full Metal Alchemist.

[BewareOfNerd]

Oh, here's a question. The avatar is a link between the human and spirits worlds, but is that link specifically to their world (Earth) or the human realm as a whole? If the entirety of the universe were the playing field, I feel like the spirits would need someone more powerful than the avatar to oversee things.

I doubt the spirits would have much interest in empty space and uninhabited planets, so I guess each planet with intelligent life would have a group of spirits overseeing it, and maybe its own Avatar. Tangentially related: I wonder if a planet covered in liquid methane instead of water (like Saturn's moon Titan) would have methanebenders?

Also, I have an idea for a modern-era Avatar sequel: Humanity's reliance on science and technology has disconnected them from the spirit world, and/or the spirits have witnessed humanity's potential for destruction and evil (nukes, genocide, etc.) and given up on them. Either way, bending is dying out and the Avatar is considered an outdated relic of primitive and superstitious times. The new Avatar has to reconnect people with the spirit world and teach them to value the past rather than abandon it, because the past is what the present and future are built on.

[AnatidaeCollector]

This is exactly the problem. At this point bending is already roughly equal to technology. While I don't see a problem with integrating bending and technology, the fact is that the technology aspect is going to start being quite a lot more powerful and important than the bending aspect the farther along you go. The concept of having bending being a dying art or seen as impractical might work, but unless it gets massively more powerful (and again, I mean more than just lightningbending being somewhat more common and Amon level bloodbending) I can't see it really working as a dominant force in even a modern day show, let alone a sci-fi or space opera show. There's possibility there, but it just feels like the "relevance" of the Avatar would be diminished when it's bending is no longer the force on which the world turns.

EDIT: In a more modern show, I can see benders being used as a special ops force with the main force being based on technology, and they could obviously do specialized work, but I can't see them being significantly more impactful than that. And at that point, we may just have something similar to Avatar: Full Metal Alchemist.

I think that in LoK, technology and bending are balanced pretty much perfectly, but that's just me.
And I do think that there are good ways to make the story progress while keeping magical elements and technology in balance without killing one off completely in the story a la Harry Potter.

I think that whether you go special forces ops, bending being obsolete, benders being used by governments in yet another war, benders being exploited (kinda like how The Condesce used mustardbloods for their powers type of thing), there are several ways that bending and technology can exist in a modern story setting. Like I said, I feel like there are enough options here that if they decide to modernize or futurize Avatar, they can do that without writing in a sudden technological disaster that blacks out the world, or without making bending totally an underground thing that pales in comparison to machines.

I do think that space isn't the best setting for Avatar though, simply for reasons such as there being no air or fire in space, water being easily manipulated by anyone in a zero-gravity environment, and earth bending being kind of stupid if there's no rocks around.

Also, there is the possibility that just as lightningbending became a thing as electricity was starting to be used, circuitbending, nuclearbending, and stuff like that could happen that could merge bending with technology. I can see an airbender maybe being able to control radiation or something, or an earthbender be able to control the wiring in electrical circuits and what have you. That's another possibility...

[Triangle Man]

@ Milsa - I guess I'm aware of that issue of technology surpassing bending on some level, hence why I threw out the spiritual aspects of it; I can't really form an idea beyond maybe suggesting an overreliance on technology and a loss of a sense of identity or something. Any fights with advanced technology would involve strategy over raw power, though. I could see that being a thing. As fir the relevance of the Avatar, I could see a situation where the world needs the Avatar's spiritual guidance rather than bending powers, and tapping into that would be a major goal in the show.

Edit - Oh, and here's a fun way to tackle bending power levels; one possible plot point of a modernized series could involve some sort of 'drug' that can enhance a bender's power but also destroy their mind. This would be treated as a bad thing. And you could also question the use of bending and the relevance of the Avatar within the show itself...

I'm just throwing out ideas to see what will stick here...

[BewareOfNerd]

I think that in LoK, technology and bending are balanced pretty much perfectly, but that's just me.
And I do think that there are good ways to make the story progress while keeping magical elements and technology in balance without killing one off completely in the story a la Harry Potter.

That's just the thing: in Harry Potter, modern technology existed, but it was completely absent from the story. And for good reason: J.K. Rowling stated that the average wizard couldn't stand up to a muggle with a gun. If wizards had access to firearms and other muggle technology, Voldemort and all of his cronies would be dead before Book One even started.

[Cervos]

I can't believe I'm posting it but I dunno why

I always thought "Hey what if there's like, a second avatar


who bends a SECOND SET OF ELEMENTS"


P much shitty fanfic mode go. Light, Dark, Time and Space benders oh boy



though a light bender would be p cool

[Milskidasith]

I think that in LoK, technology and bending are balanced pretty much perfectly, but that's just me.
And I do think that there are good ways to make the story progress while keeping magical elements and technology in balance without killing one off completely in the story a la Harry Potter.

I think that whether you go special forces ops, bending being obsolete, benders being used by governments in yet another war, benders being exploited (kinda like how The Condesce used mustardbloods for their powers type of thing), there are several ways that bending and technology can exist in a modern story setting. Like I said, I feel like there are enough options here that if they decide to modernize or futurize Avatar, they can do that without writing in a sudden technological disaster that blacks out the world, or without making bending totally an underground thing that pales in comparison to machines.

I do think that space isn't the best setting for Avatar though, simply for reasons such as there being no air or fire in space, water being easily manipulated by anyone in a zero-gravity environment, and earth bending being kind of stupid if there's no rocks around.

Also, there is the possibility that just as lightningbending became a thing as electricity was starting to be used, circuitbending, nuclearbending, and stuff like that could happen that could merge bending with technology. I can see an airbender maybe being able to control radiation or something, or an earthbender be able to control the wiring in electrical circuits and what have you. That's another possibility...

The modern setting is workable in a few ways. Once it hits sci-fi or space, though, I don't see any workable ways to not break verisimilitude or care about the Avatar that much. The problem with enhancing bending even further with technology is... well, you're upping the power level and also introducing a ton of potential complications and silliness (radiation bending is only really relevant if there are nukes/the threat of nukes, which is *probably* never going to happen in any serious way in a Y7 show, and circuit-bending just means "all electronics ever break when a bender wills it" unless they start taking serious liberties with how electronics work. Another thing is that at the moment, metalbending, bloodbending, and using lightning are both pretty strongly linked with the initial element and shown as being very specialized; it'd feel really weird to start giving benders such barely-linked powers, and it's pretty clear in the show that to some extent, absurdly fine control of bending isn't common, which these powers also require.

@ Milsa - I guess I'm aware of that issue of technology surpassing bending on some level, hence why I threw out the spiritual aspects of it; I can't really form an idea beyond maybe suggesting an overreliance on technology and a loss of a sense of identity or something. Any fights with advanced technology would involve strategy over raw power, though. I could see that being a thing. As fir the relevance of the Avatar, I could see a situation where the world needs the Avatar's spiritual guidance rather than bending powers, and tapping into that would be a major goal in the show.

Edit - Oh, and here's a fun way to tackle bending power levels; one possible plot point of a modernized series could involve some sort of 'drug' that can enhance a bender's power but also destroy their mind. This would be treated as a bad thing. And you could also question the use of bending and the relevance of the Avatar within the show itself...

I'm just throwing out ideas to see what will stick here...

I don't think the spiritual aspect is likely to be too huge, if only because they didn't do too well with it on Korra and making it the main focus is slightly odd since they clearly like clear antagonists (see: fucking Amon from possibly being a moral guy with a point and extremist views to "runs the city and builds an army on something that is mostly a lie and possibly just for power with an implication of no concern for the issue.")

The drug idea doesn't really help with the technology problem, since team Avatar can't really use it and technology introduces longer ranged and more creative solutions, not just bigger ones. It'd be an interesting concept (though I'm not sure if they can get away with drug trading even after what they've been doing), and could make a good plot point, but I can't see it solving the tech side.

EDIT: The second avatar thing... yeah, I'm going to say that idea is pretty much just "hey guys have this fun Mary Sue" at best. Plus, light and dark bending are... uhh... the same thing.

[Rikushadow5]

I can't believe I'm posting it but I dunno why

I always thought "Hey what if there's like, a second avatar


who bends a SECOND SET OF ELEMENTS"


P much shitty fanfic mode go. Light, Dark, Time and Space benders oh boy



though a light bender would be p cool

I made a game with that concept. Pretty much that exact concept, actually. Same elements and everything. Except it was like this race of people that were one step higher than the Avatar, but didn't involve themselves in the normal way of things.

[kd7sov]

Possibly it's a legacy of my introduction to fandom - Golden Sun - and some bad 'fics I found there, but these days just about any "O HAI extra classical elements" thing gets a kneejerk "NO" from me.

(And then Golden Sun seems to be adding light and dark anyway in canon, for no particularly excellent reason.)

[Cervos]

Possibly it's a legacy of my introduction to fandom - Golden Sun - and some bad 'fics I found there, but these days just about any "O HAI extra classical elements" thing gets a kneejerk "NO" from me.

(And then Golden Sun seems to be adding light and dark anyway in canon, for no particularly excellent reason.)

Golden Sun kind of played that hand by having elements named after a planet.

Venus (Earth), Mars (Fire), Jupiter (Wind), Mercury (Water). There's 4 perfectly usable other-planets not-named-earth to make an additional 4 elements. Granted, only Pluto could be specifically labeled for Dark while the other remaining planets (Saturn, Neptune and Uranus) are kind of harder to label since Neptune is more aquatically aligned than Mercury, and the other 2 are uh, well, just whatever. I guess Saturn could be Time, considering Saturn = Cronus = Chronos.