How Do You Kill Lord English?

[Aurabolt]

Just read the initial post. Amazing, and well thought out. However, I do have a few ideas about that since we now have Calliborn and understand how this all came to be.

Personally, I don't believe Aranea is correct; there has to be a way to kill him with what we have. If I might, Diffractor:

And here are our available resources.
1 God tier Breath player.
1 God tier Time player. (has god tier rung pimpslayer, and has a prophecy of "dropping it like it's hot whilst the pimp's in the crib")
1 God tier Light player. (knows what to do)
1 Dog tier first guardian Space player.
4 trolls coming along to the new session, and two others who may play a small role. Blood, Time, Doom, Space, Mind, and Rage.
2 4x prototyped carapaces.
Assistance from the future
1 Void player (implied to go god tier, and capable of "flummoxing those with plans beyond mortal understanding")
1 Life player (hard to kill)
1 Hope player
1 Heart player (implied to have the ability to destroy souls)
1 Disgruntled Gangster who has wanted to kill English for a while (has time artifacts)
A time artifact destroying crowbar, a timeline skipping voodoo doll, time traveling turntables, and pumpkins.
1 First guardian cat
And a gun which Andrew Hussie implied was able to kill Lord English, if only it had a bullet in it.

Now, God Tiers are nothing to sneeze at....and yet, while I am concerned John may not be entirely useful in the fight against Lord English, he certainly has mobility and power that can certainly be an asset. At least I hope so. Rose can see what to do involving where their luck can be manipulated the most and to their best advantage, so she becomes an incredible support asset in terms of leading them towards the Gun, possibly the Crowbar and the other items for Trolls and the like. In fact, I'm starting to think she's going to be critical in that regard for Gamzee to Rise Up into God Tier Bard of Rage.

Dave has time, and as you already stated, there are kill-chances within using that kind of temporal control alone. My concern is that LE may simply be too power as a Master Class of Time that paradox no longer has an effect on him. He controls time, literally bends it over his knee like a wrestler. Even if the ~ath code could kill him through it, he may be aware of it due to Scratch informing him and proceed to glitch again. Still, having manipulation over time may allow Dave the chance to injure LE physically by zipping back and forth through selves and pressing the issue.

Jade.....is not something you screw with right now. Invincible to physical damage with the ability to manipulate the space around her through her own God-Tier abilities and that of being a First Guardian. She could literally defend herself withempty space. or the realms beneath her, around her and above her. She can teleport and change the size and shape of anything. LE would be making a huge mistake trying to take her on head-on, and she may well be the chance for Jake to shoot him with the White Gun...which I believe the bullet is something incredible-if it was for Slick, and looked liked the Green Sun-or that she will manage to cause him great pain.

Alpha Kids: All of the kids appear to have dead bodies ready for God Tier transformation at any time. Jane will be hard to kill normally. Roxy has Calliope's name in her head...but then again, she's usually so sloshed that I hope she can remember, or at least put it down somewhere. I'm frankly not concerned about her ability as a hacker or her intelligence, but her ability as a player. Jake at least can use guns in case the White Gun comes into play...and Dirk is just that capable. He is the most powerful player in the Alpha game and has so much capability he frankly-and sadly for me, since I like everyone-puts the other kids to shame. Possibly even John, and I really want him to shine.

The Trolls will be assets in bringing together everyone, I think. Possibly fighting the other threats that surround them like the Batterwitch and the Black King if it comes right down to it. Though I find that God Rage Gamzee may have more to do.

PM...yeah. PM's handling Jack. Let her beat the Archagent down effortlessly.

WV...I guess he can be helpful? Not sure how right now with what they are entering, but if they do manage to defeat Jack and get that ring, there will be two invincible, flying and space-manipulating enemies against him.

The cat we don't know.

That's what I have right now...we might wanna focus on what roles the others can play in this coming conflict against the Batterwitch before we focus on LE, since she'll be the immediate threat once we enter the Alpha's Medium.

[Unclever title]

Wait a minute. I'm reading this over and people are saying stuff about LE being the UU's!?!!? Did everyone completely forget about this or something!?!?

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006011

That explains how LE enters a universe (or specifically how he entered the Troll's universe). It does not explain how he came to be in the first place. That's why people have been talking about LE being either/both Caliborn or/and Calliope.

[karkatarot]

Wait a minute. I'm reading this over and people are saying stuff about LE being the UU's!?!!? Did everyone completely forget about this or something!?!?

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006011

if they somehow arent LE then they are somehow connected to him, because hes a cherub, he has red circle cheeks, he is missing a leg and a tooth, theres just no way that its some kind of coincidence

[Killer-Squirtle]

if they somehow arent LE then they are somehow connected to him, because hes a cherub, he has red circle cheeks, he is missing a leg and a tooth, theres just no way that its some kind of coincidence

Of course it can be a coincidence; Hussie is the lord and master of the red herrings. He is the GOD of the herrings. He rules over his fishy kingdom with an iron fist. Whenever he so desires, his worshippers sacrifice a member of their own by air drowning and dry him out. Hussie then takes the dried out bag of scales and craves plotnotes into its hide and nails it to his wall. All this because he's too cheap to buy post-it notes.

[Krubby]

That's what I have right now...we might wanna focus on what roles the others can play in this coming conflict against the Batterwitch before we focus on LE, since she'll be the immediate threat once we enter the Alpha's Medium.

Spades Slick will also be one of the most important simply through fore-shadowing, storytelling principles and the fact that he is insanely effective at everything he wants to do. Andrew clearly meant something important with this: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scr...p?s=6&p=005683. Also, Spades is one of Andrew's favorite characters so he might change things and also, Slick needs to have a large ending to his story arc or else it wouldn't end right.

[Diffractor]

New speculation up. The problem is that in order to really know how to kill Lord English, we will need to know the answers to some or all of the following questions.

What does it mean that he is sanctioned by Paradox Space?

What are the rules to his entry? (and we know how Caliborn loves rules)

How did he get golden stuff, pool ball eyes, the sarcophagus, and first guardian powers?

Where did the felt come from?

What did Aranea mean by there being other incarnations of him?

What are the 2 jujus and how do they relate to him?

What is the secret to immortality that he is using?

And some more details about his unique session.

We don't really have enough information to speculate on how to kill him without knowing the answer to some of the above questions.
But I do have some new realizations about him, though. Caliborn's penchant for "shitty twist endings" might come into play (I really hope it doesn't). Spades Slick, Jake and Dave are implied to play a role in defeating him for good. Jake will temporarily defeat him (and Aranea said that defeat doesn't always involve killing.). Slick has dibs, and Dave has the Pimpslayer rung. Now that the backup coat he left with Stitch is gone, any sufficiently severe space-time trickery will damage his coat without being able to repair it. Calliope's line about him always making his most creative mistakes when the action begins may come into play as well. Andrew Hussie's line about being ironic that he will die in the proximity of horses may refer to Dirk's penchant for horses and how Dirk is the only human Caliborn can stand. We know that nothing is prototyped pre-entry, since the Uu session is a void session, so that disproves the "prototyping the universe" hypothesis that some people have. Dirk's ability to destroy souls may result in Calliope regaining full control of the body. I hope. (probably not). Finally, you will notice that when Lord English teleports in his Cairo Overcoat, it vanishes through a spirograph portal. This is important because it means that in this respect, he is an even more powerful space player than Jade. Jade, Bec Noir, and other first guardians can only teleport from one place to another within an incipisphere or universe, and Jade said that these rules exist to limit the power and reach of omnipotent beings. But spirograph portals can enable travel from a session to a universe, or, as shown, from anywhere to anywhere, even from the Hussieverse to the Furthest Ring. So there's that as well. Finally, I saw an idea that Vriska could steal Clover's luck to break out of the afterlife. It seems like a good idea.

[Varkarrus]

You can't kill Lord English

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BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY DEAD

[Krubby]

New speculation up. The problem is that in order to really know how to kill Lord English, we will need to know the answers to some or all of the following questions.

What does it mean that he is sanctioned by Paradox Space?

What are the rules to his entry? (and we know how Caliborn loves rules)

How did he get golden stuff, pool ball eyes, the sarcophagus, and first guardian powers?

Where did the felt come from?

What did Aranea mean by there being other incarnations of him?

What are the 2 jujus and how do they relate to him?

What is the secret to immortality that he is using?

And some more details about his unique session.

We don't really have enough information to speculate on how to kill him without knowing the answer to some of the above questions.
But I do have some new realizations about him, though. Caliborn's penchant for "shitty twist endings" might come into play (I really hope it doesn't). Spades Slick, Jake and Dave are implied to play a role in defeating him for good. Jake will temporarily defeat him (and Aranea said that defeat doesn't always involve killing.). Slick has dibs, and Dave has the Pimpslayer rung. Now that the backup coat he left with Stitch is gone, any sufficiently severe space-time trickery will damage his coat without being able to repair it. Calliope's line about him always making his most creative mistakes when the action begins may come into play as well. Andrew Hussie's line about being ironic that he will die in the proximity of horses may refer to Dirk's penchant for horses and how Dirk is the only human Caliborn can stand. We know that nothing is prototyped pre-entry, since the Uu session is a void session, so that disproves the "prototyping the universe" hypothesis that some people have. Dirk's ability to destroy souls may result in Calliope regaining full control of the body. I hope. (probably not). Finally, you will notice that when Lord English teleports in his Cairo Overcoat, it vanishes through a spirograph portal. This is important because it means that in this respect, he is an even more powerful space player than Jade. Jade, Bec Noir, and other first guardians can only teleport from one place to another within an incipisphere or universe, and Jade said that these rules exist to limit the power and reach of omnipotent beings. But spirograph portals can enable travel from a session to a universe, or, as shown, from anywhere to anywhere, even from the Hussieverse to the Furthest Ring. So there's that as well. Finally, I saw an idea that Vriska could steal Clover's luck to break out of the afterlife. It seems like a good idea.

You're inferring he's Caliborn

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he isn't.

[Diffractor]

Hussie has a history of tying up loose ends in the story, even stuff as minor as how all the kids met. It wouldn't be enough for him to just have Lord English as an existing enemy, he would have to explain where he came from at some point. If Caliborn isn't Lord English, then you have to answer the following questions.

Why are we focusing on the Uu storyline otherwise? What relevance does it have?

Why does Lord English have a cane/rifle very similar to Caliborn's, along with a wand identical to Calliope's?

Why does Lord English have a missing tooth and a missing leg and red dot cheeks like Caliborn?

Why do Caliborn and Lord English look so similar?

Why is there the shared sarcophagus/sarswapagus theme, if Lord English isn't Caliborn?

Why does Lord English heading towards the new session and wrecking stuff along the way appear in the flash Caliborn: Enter?

Why is it mentioned that Caliborn/Calliope is an incredibly powerful time player/space player?

For the Caliborn=Lord English hypothesis (tempted to call it a theory), there are an enormous number of parallels and references and characteristics shared by only those two characters. For the Caliborn!=Lord English hypothesis, all the evidence for that is that English emerged from Doc Scratch (which doesn't disprove the first hypothesis, btw), the existence of some characteristics that Lord English has that Caliborn doesn't have,(yet. There's still an entire session and several universal iterations that haven't been covered yet) and Caliborn's statement that he is great at red herrings, which might be a strong enough statement to cast doubt on one or two parallels by themselves, but crumbles under the massive preponderance of evidence that has accrued by now. I'll attach a 98% probability to the Caliborn=Lord English hypothesis.

[Krubby]

So you're saying that Caliborn magically squeezes into Lil Cal who jumps across universes and... this is to confusing to even think about. Look, we saw every. Single. Step of LE's creation. And have any of you considered that all these similarities and teasers are just meant to make everyone think Caliborn is LE, so that then everyone falls on their faces when it's revealed that he isn't.

[Diffractor]

There are 2 possibilities. 1: Lord English is a separate entity from Caliborn. 2: Lord English is Caliborn in the future. I suggest we split this discussion into two parts. The first part, about whether Caliborn is Lord English, can be conducted by PM, so as not to derail the topic. The second part, about "if this possibility is true, what can we use about it to gain an advantage against English" can and should be discussed here. To begin, if Caliborn=LE, saying "Calliope" is a workable strategy. If Caliborn is a different entity from Lord English, that won't work. Some tactics, like using spacetime shenanigans to destroy his coat/sarcophagus, or trying to use the white pistol work in both cases. If Caliborn isn't Lord English, then trying to persuade him to accept the goodness in his heart would be slightly more likely to succeed than if Cali=LE. We can agree on things like that, I hope. Plans should be made for both possibilities, until one is disproved.

[NetOwl]

What are the 2 jujus and how do they relate to him?

Hussie has strongly implied that they are Cal and the rabbit. I suspected this anyway, but he pretty much confirmed it when they fell into the water in parallel scenes of one of the animation segments a couple of months ago. Now I'm pretty sure.

This would also explain how Caliborn could enter a universe through Doc Scratch. As he is somehow connected to his juju, perhaps he can travel that way.



Another thing I suspect is that the uranium WV swallowed will play a role in the endgame. Perhaps Jack will use it to load the White Gun.

[Krubby]

Another thing I suspect is that the uranium WV swallowed will play a role in the endgame. Perhaps Jack will use it to load the White Gun.

In Cascade, Jack impales WV's stomach to get the uranium and uses it to power the ship so that he can teleport to the trolls' session. The uranium vanishes once it is used.

[recalcitrantIre]

Another thing I suspect is that the uranium WV swallowed will play a role in the endgame. Perhaps Jack will use it to load the White Gun.

That was ripped out of his stomach in Cascade and used to provide enough power to WV's station so that Jack could jump to the trolls session

although since we're on that point of WV eating green things, WV is totally going to eat Lord English offscreen before the final battle

there will be a *BURP* and everyone will be standing around like "wtf just happened"

[fedearg_612]

Hussie has strongly implied that they are Cal and the rabbit. I suspected this anyway, but he pretty much confirmed it when they fell into the water in parallel scenes of one of the animation segments a couple of months ago. Now I'm pretty sure.

This would also explain how Caliborn could enter a universe through Doc Scratch. As he is somehow connected to his juju, perhaps he can travel that way.



Another thing I suspect is that the uranium WV swallowed will play a role in the endgame. Perhaps Jack will use it to load the White Gun.

Jack ripped it of his stomach in Cascade.

[Diffractor]

I think WV still has the embiggening green eye of Liv Tyler in his stomach.

[Krubby]

I think WV still has the embiggening green eye of Liv Tyler in his stomach.

that was like, at least 5 years ago when he ate it.

[Kuyan J]

Get him to enter a once-prototyped sprite. Since sprites prefer to combine with dead rather than living beings, it will hopefully combine with Calliope.

[Graknorke]

No, that will just prototype the paired body, seeing as the body isn't so much dead as Calliope's personality and mind is being locked down. It'll just prototype the whole thing, then Caliborn could go on a quest crypt and BOOM. As he falls asleep/dies his consciousness will transfer to the Cherubsprite and it will also get the tiger.
Not that it matters.
Caliborn cannot be Lord English because he is too busy being the master of red herrings.

[Krubby]

Caliborn cannot be Lord English because he is too busy being the master of red herrings.

Yeah, I think that's probably the red herring that Andrew is teasing us with. It would be pretty funny if he goes on to make more and more similarities between English and Caliborn then make it turn out that they have nothing to do with each other.

[Graknorke]

Yeah, I think that's probably the red herring that Andrew is teasing us with. It would be pretty funny if he goes on to make more and more similarities between English and Caliborn then make it turn out that they have nothing to do with each other.

Or alternatively a double red-herring fakeout reacharound, in which Caliborn keeps mentioning the red herrings swimming in his blood, and more and more things are drawn and then..... oh no wait yeah Caliborn IS LE. Whoops.

[Krubby]

Or alternatively a double red-herring fakeout reacharound, in which Caliborn keeps mentioning the red herrings swimming in his blood, and more and more things are drawn and then..... oh no wait yeah Caliborn IS LE. Whoops.

Or maybe continue having more and more reacharounds until everyone has been mind fucked and doesn't know what's going on then have it turn out that LE is actually Terezi and Caliborn is the football player being attacked by a horse.

[Menen]

Or it turns out that All the players get alchemized together and become lord english.

makes perfect sense guys.

[Kaleb702]

Or it turns out that All the players get alchemized together and become lord english.

makes perfect sense guys.

so LE's captcha code would be ! over and over again? (since all holes punched are !. or was it ?, I can't remember? ! would be more dramatic)

[aattss]

I lost track. Did you ever consider a flowchart?